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[Music]

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hey this is bryant arnold also known as

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dragon from skinwalker ranch and you're

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast it's another documentary review

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and i've got dan joining me for this one

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hello hello it's uh it's good to be here

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again um and dan we've got a guest if

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you're watching this on youtube

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depending on how much dan can be

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bothered he might already have the guest

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picture there and you'll know who it is

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otherwise otherwise it'll be a surprise

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if he fades in

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it'll always be a surprise yeah always

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okay guys yeah we won the reveal there

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we've overdone it now i i should have

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been like oh it's chris melon and then

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people would be all excited um fyi folks

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i got a very very polite knock back from

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christopher mellon uh personally a

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couple of days ago he's just busy just

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now he said but yeah but at least he

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said no to me so he's engaging

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yes

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it's not chris melon nathan so i'm

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really going to disappoint people now by

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nathan

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to the podcast but obviously in his own

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right now a very esteemed podcaster

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researcher commentator bon vivor

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entrepreneur and any number of things

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nathan welcome back to the podcast thank

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you andy good to be here it's very good

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to have you on and uh yeah i wanted to

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get you on something for quite a while

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and when this came up i said to dan look

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let's let's get nathan on for for a

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conversation and the stars have aligned

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and we're all here to talk about james

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fox 2002 effort out of the blue

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um so i've got to see a very quick hello

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to my little brother mac i mean uh zack

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sorry um my little brother fox is just

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over from australia to do a bit of a

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tour of the uk and europe and he's going

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to listen to the podcast so he did ask

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for a shout out so hi zach there you go

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there's your shout out now get back to

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your backpacking or whatever it is

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you're doing um

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so yeah out the blue james fox narrated

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by peter coyote is it coyote or coyote

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first one i think yeah

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yeah

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do you know ever since i started this

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podcast it's like is it susan go susan

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goff oh it's like listen it's peter c

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okay um really cool voice um to his

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friends

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not watched for years uh and i do mean

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years it's available via various

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different platforms i would always

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suggest if possible pay for it rent it

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buy it if you can but it is available

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for free on on various youtube like

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channels such as youtube um

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it starts off with a shot of the hubble

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telescope which you know given just

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recently we've had the upgrade of the

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james really yeah very timely um talks

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about the drake equation

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um you know

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equation being dan that's going to be

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one of your your ones oh yeah draw me to

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give you the drink equation it's a sink

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plate it's succinctly yeah let's sketch

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it out real quick

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i can do it and it's just not going to

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be as good

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aliens

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is it so is the number of uh

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civilizations in the milky way that are

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capable of producing signals that we can

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detect on earth uh times of rate at

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which stars are capable of support in

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life in our galaxy times the fraction of

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those stars that have a planet all

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planets times the average number of

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planets per planetary system that have

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an environment that can support life

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times the fraction of those planets that

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can support life on which life actually

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develops times the fraction of those

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planets with life where intelligent life

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develops times the fraction of those

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intelligent civilizations that develop

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technology for communication and then

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finally times the average lifetime of

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those civilizations that develop

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technology for communication so that

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gives us a very kind of big number still

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but many years ago like about 10 years

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ago we didn't think there were any

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planets outside the solar system now

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we're up to about 10 000 exoplanets so

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that equation the result of that has

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changed dramatically since this film was

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made

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yeah and it's

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i couldn't help but think the whole time

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this was introduced because it's a

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couple of minute long introduction um

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while they're discussing the drake

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equation we're seeing these beautiful

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shots we're seeing some intersp

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intersplice clips it was very late 90s

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early 2000s and it was almost like an

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mtv type production you know where

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everything where where cgi was just

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coming in and computer graphics were

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getting a little bit better and it was

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almost like yeah someone was just having

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a lot of fun with the computer systems

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um but funky music behind it overlapping

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videos but if you if you date it it's

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over 20 years old now if you remember

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though it was a step up from traditional

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ufo documentaries that you would see and

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i was like yeah i liked it got a little

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bit of a vibe and thought

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it takes you back to that kind of time

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what you know that those early 2000s um

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thinking though do you think this was

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being aimed at a bit of a younger

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audience

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so we're probably just at the time of

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dvds or just before dvds maybe 2002.

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around it was round about yeah you could

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get dvds at that point and obviously vhs

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videotapes

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nathan is this being aimed at a younger

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audience

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to get them into the ufo subject

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i mean i think so i just wish james foss

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could make a good documentary i mean he

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just uh just got i mean it's excellently

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done uh i agree with you it's definitely

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dated uh you know looking back and

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having obviously lived through that time

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myself uh it uh i think

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did a did a very solid job of kind of

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laying out a good argument and as far as

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the graphics and the

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the music you know it's distracting to

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us now sort of how i think about it at

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the time i think it would have been

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really kind of engaging because that's

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just what people were doing uh you know

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trying to capture imaginations and

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things like that

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and clearly he had kind of uh

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the things that he highlighted in terms

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of what was coming out or was being

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discussed and i think he was trying to

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kind of throw some weight behind some of

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these uh late 90s early aught movements

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that were happening around that time

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dan we start to see some of those names

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don't we as well like your corso's edgar

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mitchells and

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they're probably talking head clips now

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that we're very very familiar with

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because we've seen them replayed so many

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times in the time since this documentary

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came out but many people probably saw

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these for the first time when they were

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watching this because there was still no

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social media the internet was still

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young and burgeoning the internet speeds

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were still pretty pretty low pretty poor

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so there was no streaming services so

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this would have been the type of thing

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you would have picked up at a

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blockbuster a global video um you know

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hmv virgin mega stores whatever your

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kind of local places where and i could

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imagine the different types of covers

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and i used to remember going to to those

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types of stores

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uh to get like wrestling vhs and it was

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funny ufo stuff and wrestling was always

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next to each other for some reason i was

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i always remember that and then you

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would get like the you know

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the ah

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what'd you would you call it the ray

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santilli is it recently with the

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or the

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yeah the autopsy the alien autopsy video

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that would always be there wouldn't it

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you would always see that and yeah it's

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like really alien correct me from wrong

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but that was presented by anton deck in

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the uk or did they do a spin-off movie

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or something like that movie yeah it was

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unlike the movie they were the guys in

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it yeah um i've never seen it and don't

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plan and see that either

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no so right next to wrestlemania you had

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uh

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the alien artist yeah that was that it

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was like they were literally there but

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all those videos and

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vhs and dvds had the same types of

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covers so it was just the same kind of

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things repackaged so also james fox set

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out to do something here a little bit

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different at the time and i've got a

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quote from james fox at the end i asked

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him the other day

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what do you think of this piece now 20

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years on and he's gave me a little

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summary of what he he's really honest

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about it as well um so we get

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interesting because it's this almost

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watched like a prototype for the

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phenomena right like you you could see

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the structure was there and he just

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updated it um and like you say the cg

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got a bit better and there's that's not

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really present in this at all

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yeah the out of the blue title screen

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comes up after three or four minutes and

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i've put lovely early computer graphics

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it's the kind of thing that if

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if dan presented to me now i'd be

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sending him back to the drawing board

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going no no no no that's a really that's

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a really good effort um

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so first discussion point okay early on

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we see some really interesting videos of

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various different ufos that have been

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captured remembering we're looking at

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the peak of 90s video camera footage or

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our 80s kind of footage here and it was

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always of a certain standard you can

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picture it right now in your head it's

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got the time stamp in the bottom right

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hand corner you know it's got the time

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and it's usually some woodland area with

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an object and the distance you can't

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really make out

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has that standard change 20 years later

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and are we too harsh on camera phone

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footage because now that we have camera

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phone footage everyone

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that the general argument is that

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we should have better evidence than we

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do with everyone having these wonderful

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cameras in our pockets

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but do we under appreciate the footage

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that we have now dan i'll go to you with

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that one first

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yeah i think we do you look at the

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cameras that are present in in home

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video camera systems and those things

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they have good optical zooms on them

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because they were bigger boxy bodies you

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know on our smartphones that's not the

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case these things are made to take

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portrait shots of our pets and of our

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family and things like that so when you

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you know bring up the the standard lens

275
00:09:27,430 --> 00:09:25,600
on say an iphone that's a wide-angle

276
00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:27,440
lens so if something's in front of you

277
00:09:31,350 --> 00:09:29,040
kind of giving this

278
00:09:32,949 --> 00:09:31,360
peacocking display having visited you

279
00:09:34,150 --> 00:09:32,959
know the earth from somewhere else

280
00:09:36,230 --> 00:09:34,160
you're barely going to catch it it's

281
00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:36,240
going to be just a dart in the sky so i

282
00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:37,360
think some of the footage that was

283
00:09:40,949 --> 00:09:39,200
present in this was actually better than

284
00:09:42,550 --> 00:09:40,959
some of the things you see posted to you

285
00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:42,560
know to facebook or to something like

286
00:09:45,990 --> 00:09:44,080
that where people kind of go wow i saw

287
00:09:47,110 --> 00:09:46,000
this thing and you know it's hard to

288
00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:47,120
prove that it's not the international

289
00:09:49,350 --> 00:09:48,240
space station or a satellite or

290
00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:49,360
something like that there's really not

291
00:09:51,829 --> 00:09:50,800
much data there

292
00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:51,839
nathan

293
00:09:57,030 --> 00:09:54,480
yeah i completely agree uh i i think

294
00:09:58,870 --> 00:09:57,040
we're also kind of desensitized to just

295
00:10:00,949 --> 00:09:58,880
all of the footage that we see with the

296
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:00,959
with the cell phone smartphones

297
00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:02,880
uh go outside on a full moon night take

298
00:10:06,310 --> 00:10:04,880
a photo of the moon it will look nothing

299
00:10:07,829 --> 00:10:06,320
like what you see with your own eyes and

300
00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:07,839
you'll actually be pretty frustrated

301
00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:10,000
even if you've got a great camera

302
00:10:14,550 --> 00:10:12,240
so i think you know we've come a long

303
00:10:16,389 --> 00:10:14,560
way in the kind of ubiquitous nature of

304
00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:16,399
what we can do but

305
00:10:20,630 --> 00:10:17,920
i do tend to think that some of the

306
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:20,640
older clips that we saw from those vhs

307
00:10:24,310 --> 00:10:22,720
tapes and whatnot are you know pretty

308
00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:24,320
compelling you know

309
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:25,440
it's also interesting though looking

310
00:10:29,269 --> 00:10:26,959
back at those

311
00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:29,279
in hindsight kind of where we are now

312
00:10:32,790 --> 00:10:30,640
and with what i would guess called the

313
00:10:34,230 --> 00:10:32,800
mick west effect or something you know

314
00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:34,240
you're looking at all this going well

315
00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:35,680
maybe that's a you know maybe that's

316
00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:37,279
this or that you know your mind is going

317
00:10:40,630 --> 00:10:38,560
through this checklist of things that

318
00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:40,640
you might try to discount

319
00:10:44,069 --> 00:10:42,720
whatever that footage might be

320
00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:44,079
and that's just i think that's kind of

321
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:46,000
the

322
00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:49,279
everybody begins now we're we're kind of

323
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:51,040
starting with a position of it's

324
00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:52,800
probably not something

325
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:54,720
exceptional and we're going through this

326
00:10:57,829 --> 00:10:56,399
checklist and then

327
00:10:59,829 --> 00:10:57,839
and then it kind of becomes like a

328
00:11:01,910 --> 00:10:59,839
little bit forgettable in a way

329
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:01,920
unfortunately you know we can't just put

330
00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:03,600
it in the old in the file drawer with

331
00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:05,680
all the other videos that we're just

332
00:11:09,190 --> 00:11:07,440
bombarded with every day

333
00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:09,200
so i can go on my phone just now and

334
00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:11,200
download any number of apps that can

335
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:14,240
turn my sitting room or kitchen into

336
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:16,480
like an fx studio where there's

337
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:17,920
explosions going off and you know

338
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:19,600
spider-man can swing by and all that

339
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,839
kind of stuff

340
00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:23,440
in the middle of england as normally

341
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:25,920
happens in my bathroom yeah and

342
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:28,079
i'm thinking though back in the 90s and

343
00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:30,880
80s it was much much harder for anyone

344
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:33,360
to fake and add things in after

345
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:35,279
production as easy as any of us can do

346
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,519
it now on our phones so is it almost

347
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:39,040
more credible when you see this kind of

348
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:41,760
footage as shaky cam as it can still be

349
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:42,480
and

350
00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:44,720
as out of place as it can look it it

351
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:46,959
took a much larger skill set didn't it

352
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:49,680
and time and money and equipment to to

353
00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:51,920
add an effect and afterwards so

354
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:53,519
some of this footage like you see it

355
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:55,120
again it's odd and it looks really old

356
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:57,920
but is it better than what we probably

357
00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:59,760
see now

358
00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:01,120
there's there's a

359
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:02,800
a big portion of it is understanding

360
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:04,399
what we're seeing as well you know in in

361
00:12:07,269 --> 00:12:05,760
this there was a part where they were

362
00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:07,279
talking about fuzzy videos and things

363
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:08,160
like that

364
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,000
and when we look at the tic tac video

365
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:11,839
sure it's fuzzy but it's not using a

366
00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:13,920
camera as we're used to seeing so

367
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,360
there's a whole bunch of education that

368
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:17,279
goes along with seeing that video and

369
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:18,480
actually understanding what you're

370
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,839
seeing you know the kind of the white

371
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:21,600
hot the black heart that kind of stuff

372
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,800
and i think that area is where

373
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:27,120
you know debunkers and believers both

374
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,200
they kind of find their their catnip so

375
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:31,839
to speak because it's just

376
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:33,760
yeah they they exploit the lack of

377
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:37,040
education out there i think

378
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:38,480
yeah and when you

379
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:40,639
well when you're looking at that the vhs

380
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,839
stuff

381
00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:43,600
it's so bizarre

382
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,920
uh the behavior characteristics of what

383
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:47,440
you're seeing that a couple of the

384
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:49,760
saucer shapes that were in those uh

385
00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:51,760
pieces of footage like they're so

386
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:54,480
bizarre looking just generally

387
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:55,279
that

388
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:56,800
you know your amount you i think your

389
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,959
default mode is like you know i i don't

390
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,399
know what that is that's probably

391
00:13:04,949 --> 00:13:02,560
something just you know prosaic and i

392
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:04,959
can kind of explain it away

393
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:07,120
but it's remarkable i mean you know like

394
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:08,720
that's just like and i think too about

395
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:10,160
what people say when they actually have

396
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,680
these experiences that they see the

397
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:13,920
saucers they see you know sometimes very

398
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,760
very close and they're immediately kind

399
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:17,680
of second guessing what they saw in

400
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:20,639
person so we're you know we're removed

401
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:22,720
at least once removed from that personal

402
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:25,519
moment and we're doing the same thing um

403
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,720
i do think it you know it's pretty

404
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:28,079
compelling stuff though i like those old

405
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:29,680
i like that old clip stuff i think

406
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:30,959
you're right into your point about the

407
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:32,800
cgi and it's probably less likely they

408
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:34,240
did a lot of editing i think that's

409
00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:35,600
probably true

410
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:37,040
i think you've got your own bias as well

411
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:38,639
when you see a video of any of this

412
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,000
stuff and i've always said like what

413
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,320
would real look like because imagine the

414
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:44,560
day we do get to see one of these pilots

415
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:46,079
has filmed one of these things next to

416
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,920
them and it would just look so different

417
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:49,440
to what any others could have imagined

418
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:51,040
so in your head you look at someone's

419
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,959
footage and you think yeah that's not

420
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:53,920
what i thought it would look like

421
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:56,000
there's there's a famous picture and you

422
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,440
guys will know better than me off the

423
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,839
top of your head um full disclosure i

424
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:01,279
had a night out last night so i'm a

425
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,120
little bit croaky and my memory is kind

426
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:05,199
of fuzzy but you know it's it looks like

427
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:07,760
a a bell on its side but it's flying

428
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,680
through the air oh yeah yeah it's not

429
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,760
the mcminnville one is it that's not out

430
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:13,279
of no

431
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,880
i know what you mean do you know the one

432
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:16,800
i mean yeah and i always think that

433
00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:18,800
looks like someone has thrown like a

434
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,040
bell you would get on a desk in the air

435
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:23,279
and taking a picture but

436
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:24,880
why wouldn't one of these craft

437
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:26,959
potentially look a bit like that you

438
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:28,399
know when it's flying through the air so

439
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:31,279
just cause i don't see that as a sexy

440
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:33,199
representation of oh that's not a cool

441
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:34,560
looking flying saucer or a black

442
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:35,760
triangle

443
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:37,040
doesn't mean to say it's not something

444
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:38,639
really incredible when you can easily

445
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,480
dismiss it as well

446
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,480
what it does move on to though is my

447
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,399
favorite case i've mentioned for many

448
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:46,480
many times is the phoenix lights event

449
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:48,399
and it gives a really nice recap for the

450
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,240
phoenix knights and thinking as well

451
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:52,320
this was at this point less than 10

452
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,399
years removed from the event still

453
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:56,079
something that was pretty fresh it's

454
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:57,760
something that a lot of people might not

455
00:15:02,230 --> 00:14:59,839
have known about outside of the us or if

456
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,240
you were in those kind of ufo circles um

457
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:04,560
listener steve asked me why this was my

458
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,760
favorite case and i just thought i would

459
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:07,680
answer that really quickly a few things

460
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,000
so it's a mass sighting that the number

461
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,160
of witnesses are unrelated in different

462
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:13,920
areas but all looking at the same thing

463
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:16,560
sharing the same testimony especially of

464
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:18,959
the object flying over the city blacking

465
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:20,399
out the stars i always thought that was

466
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,760
really amazing to hear from lots of

467
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:23,519
different people and then obviously the

468
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:26,000
cover-up that followed and also was torn

469
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,720
apart by governor fife simington who

470
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:30,880
instigated it made a mockery of it the

471
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:32,560
people who hated that it ruined his

472
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:34,240
political career and then he came out

473
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:35,600
years later and basically said yeah i

474
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:38,160
was i was told to do that

475
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:40,079
so i want to ask you both a quick

476
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:41,839
question um

477
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:44,959
given this was the mid-90s okay

478
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,720
would there not have been substantial

479
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:48,720
data for the event that we've still

480
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:50,800
never heard about given the level of

481
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:52,240
military technology that there would

482
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:53,279
have been

483
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:55,839
so i keep seeing people with the u.s

484
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:58,560
hearings that let's hear about roswell

485
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:00,079
and it's like well roswell's going to be

486
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:02,000
very limited in what we've got and it'll

487
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:04,320
be files and paper and is it a craft

488
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:05,839
still somewhere are there bits of

489
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,399
something lockheed or boeing or whatever

490
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:10,320
but the phoenix lights

491
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:12,079
surely they would have had

492
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,720
radar potentially satellite tracking all

493
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:16,880
kinds of things on this object that

494
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:19,199
would be relatively

495
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:20,720
good incredible data that they could

496
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:22,639
bring forward now would you dan what

497
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:23,839
were your thoughts

498
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:26,800
yeah absolutely um they i i find it hard

499
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,759
to believe they wouldn't have had

500
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:30,240
satellites up there taking imagery where

501
00:16:33,749 --> 00:16:32,320
you could prove or disprove this event

502
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:33,759
it's one of the ones that you could put

503
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:36,000
on the table and i mean if you if you

504
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:38,000
prove it you can prove the cover-up so

505
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:39,600
there's almost a lot riding on an event

506
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:41,120
like this so

507
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:42,800
for that reason it wouldn't surprise me

508
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,160
if they just kind of ignore it and sweep

509
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:46,399
it under the rug because you have the

510
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,920
event then you have the flare drop after

511
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:49,199
the event and a lot of people kind of

512
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,720
conflate the two

513
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:52,560
but if we can prove that the flare drop

514
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,120
happened because of that earlier event

515
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:57,360
it just raises so many questions um in

516
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:00,240
terms of questioning the authority uh

517
00:17:03,509 --> 00:17:01,759
that i i think it would be a dangerous

518
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:03,519
precedent for them to bring up in their

519
00:17:06,949 --> 00:17:04,959
eyes anyway i wish they would bring it

520
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:06,959
up because yeah i think the cover-up is

521
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:09,600
the easiest thing to prove here

522
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,439
yeah i agree

523
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:13,520
particularly if the object was as large

524
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,319
as

525
00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:16,959
eyewitness accounts uh and claimed it to

526
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,520
be i mean a very massive object i mean

527
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:22,000
how would that not have been seen on the

528
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,280
nearby uh air traffic control tower and

529
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,199
and i would imagine like recorded in

530
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,520
some way because it it's a flight safety

531
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:31,919
risk and they're just as if we all know

532
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:33,919
the kurt russell story he's coming into

533
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:36,559
the area i mean he saw it coming in so

534
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:37,840
you know there's got to be some data

535
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:38,880
there

536
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,280
also phoenix is not that far from

537
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,360
military bases and airfields that are in

538
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:45,360
that area part of the country i mean

539
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:47,200
you're telling me they don't keep track

540
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:48,960
of things that are kind of nearby or

541
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:50,320
particularly things of

542
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,480
that incredible size so i agree and it

543
00:17:56,789 --> 00:17:54,160
begs the question

544
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:56,799
what kind of historical data do we have

545
00:18:01,909 --> 00:17:59,360
you know how how is it retained i think

546
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,919
i recall remembering jeremy corbell

547
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:03,200
saying something about you know there's

548
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,799
like a there's like a warehouse

549
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:06,400
somewhere where all this stuff just gets

550
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:08,400
like sent to it's like what's in that

551
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:10,240
warehouse i mean surely this stuff is

552
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:12,720
there and to your point dan i mean

553
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,799
one among many examples and events where

554
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:17,039
if we just kind of took that folder out

555
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,760
and

556
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,520
put out the evidence on the table we

557
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:21,360
would kind of not be we'd not be having

558
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:27,669
dan phoenix likes if that happened

559
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,799
10 years later mid-2000s

560
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:32,880
with the first camera phones were out or

561
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:35,200
even if it happened now

562
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,679
do you think that would be

563
00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:40,160
as big an event

564
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:41,760
or a bigger event is that something that

565
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:43,440
would be that oh it definitely happened

566
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,679
or do you think we would still get the

567
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:47,360
it would be grainy video it'd be night

568
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,400
time so you're going to get a lot of

569
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:50,320
just kind of shapes moving against the

570
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:51,280
sky

571
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:52,960
but with that many people would that

572
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:55,200
ignite the interest in a subject or

573
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:57,679
would the results be exactly the same

574
00:19:02,310 --> 00:18:59,440
i i think it would ignite the interest

575
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,320
especially given the political kind of

576
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:04,559
interest in this at the moment you know

577
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:05,600
you're not going to have someone like

578
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:07,520
governor 5 symington making a mockery of

579
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:08,880
it and making a mockery of the people

580
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:10,400
who saw it and making them feel like

581
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:13,120
they're being idiots and you know you're

582
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,400
gonna have

583
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:15,919
a bunch of grown-ups at the helm that

584
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:18,000
are actually interested in solving this

585
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:19,039
and

586
00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:21,679
not bringing forward well he he had an

587
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,960
alien come out with him or someone

588
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:24,240
dresses and he'll come out with him and

589
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,440
then reveal their face and just kind of

590
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:27,600
went it's a bit of fun whereas now like

591
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:28,960
nathan's talking about we we're

592
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:30,400
considering this from a flight safety

593
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,720
angle from a national security angle and

594
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:34,240
that stuff is all at the forefront right

595
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:36,799
now so i think if it happens now we get

596
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:39,440
thousands of videos that all get kind of

597
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:42,400
pulled into this mass uh

598
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:45,039
mass data store i guess and yeah it

599
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,880
proves the case essentially i actually

600
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:48,080
wrote in my notes here that i wish

601
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:49,200
something like this would happen these

602
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,320
days

603
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:52,240
i i love you had to correct yourself dan

604
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:53,600
that you said an alien walked out with

605
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:55,280
him oh well someone dressed as an alien

606
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:56,960
and it was like yeah thanks for you you

607
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:59,039
never know these days you never know i

608
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:00,480
posted something to twitter the other

609
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:02,159
day and and people took it seriously and

610
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:04,159
it was a joke about the cia using

611
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:05,760
highlighters that were black and not

612
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:07,520
realizing

613
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:09,440
well you know what the cia would say all

614
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:11,440
you hear is all hearsay apparently as

615
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:12,880
the line goes yeah

616
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:13,840
um

617
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:15,919
the phoenix lights event and i i was

618
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:18,240
thinking just this before

619
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:21,280
if it happened now sky news and i'm sure

620
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:22,960
other news companies would be the same

621
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,640
but i always heard that sky news several

622
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:26,480
years ago claimed they could be anywhere

623
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:28,240
on the planet with a camera within three

624
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,520
minutes

625
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:31,440
and you think if something like that did

626
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:34,080
happen surely the news cameras would be

627
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,080
there on the spot so if something was

628
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:38,559
going over a town or city getting mass

629
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:40,559
reports and you see it now don't you

630
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,000
that if there's if there's like awful

631
00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:43,919
something off like a terrorist attack

632
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:45,600
within minutes people's camera phones

633
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:46,799
are filming it and newest companies

634
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:48,240
start picking it up and relaying

635
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:50,799
people's live images people instagram

636
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:52,960
live they go live on twitter all that

637
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:54,640
kind of stuff so you would think there

638
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:57,120
would be a mass social media live event

639
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,080
happen

640
00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:00,720
and yeah that that could hopefully be

641
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,240
is something like that likely to happen

642
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:04,480
again

643
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,720
prop question no

644
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,880
i mean we we talk about them being aware

645
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:11,120
of us and our capabilities all the time

646
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,720
and i'm not saying that you know the

647
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:14,880
visitors are sat there kind of

648
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:16,480
yelling at tim cook as he announces the

649
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:17,600
new iphone kind of going oh the

650
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:19,120
resolution's gone up we have to hide a

651
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:21,600
little bit more now uh but they'll

652
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:23,440
certainly be uh

653
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,400
they wouldn't want to leave a big

654
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:26,480
footprint they wouldn't want to well why

655
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:28,320
why fly about over phoenix in the mid

656
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:30,640
90s anyway then like because it wasn't

657
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:31,919
the most subtle

658
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:34,640
thing to do and that's always a bit of a

659
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:36,400
it's an odd thing where they don't want

660
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:38,400
to be seen and you know they'll show us

661
00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:39,840
what they want to show us

662
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:42,640
why fly about almost stealthily to the

663
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:43,840
point where people could just make out

664
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:44,880
the shape

665
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,280
and can i hide in in plain sight shout

666
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:49,600
out to ross coltar but you know good job

667
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:50,799
yeah thanks

668
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:53,440
i'm sobering up now but like why why

669
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:56,080
even expose yourself to that extent or

670
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:57,600
is that part of that

671
00:22:01,909 --> 00:21:59,679
trickster frustration aspect to the

672
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:01,919
phenomenon where yeah we're we're just

673
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:03,600
here at the edge of your vision

674
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:05,600
but it's that that doctor who episode

675
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:06,880
where you can see these things with the

676
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:08,400
corner of your eye and then when you

677
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:10,159
look they're not there and is it that

678
00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:12,559
they're just always out of reach

679
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:13,840
yeah i think this is one of those things

680
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:16,080
that we're really going to have to

681
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:18,400
work hard to understand you know that to

682
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:19,600
me as this

683
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:21,520
story continues to unfold and become

684
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:22,640
more

685
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,640
socially acceptable we

686
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,400
will look back at a lot of events in in

687
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:28,880
the history of this uh topic and we'll

688
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,120
kind of think oh you know that was

689
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,000
you know that sort of kicked off another

690
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:36,480
sort of chain of events that then led to

691
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:38,400
this that of the other

692
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:39,919
you know but then again you know the

693
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:41,280
sort of the

694
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:43,039
other side of that argument for me is

695
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:44,480
you know human beings are very good at

696
00:22:47,669 --> 00:22:46,240
narrative construction you know so we

697
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:47,679
we're very good at looking back at

698
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:50,480
seemingly completely disconnected events

699
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,159
and and connecting those dots and saying

700
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,559
look there's a story here this led to

701
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:56,799
this and that so you know i think i can

702
00:23:01,510 --> 00:22:59,679
see it from both perspectives i'm very

703
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:01,520
frustrated that we haven't had a

704
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:04,640
sighting or an event to that scale

705
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:05,840
but

706
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:07,760
at the same time it you know very well

707
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:09,760
could be just kind of part of how this

708
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:11,679
is going to unfold it's going to be one

709
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,720
of those

710
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:14,720
you know really

711
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:17,520
enigmatic events that

712
00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:19,919
maybe started off some conversations or

713
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:22,159
started off some you know some intense

714
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:24,400
interest from those who experienced it

715
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:27,520
and that then catalyzed others to pursue

716
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:29,840
this more vigorously i mean clearly that

717
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:32,720
event was so impactful that james fox

718
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:34,880
made an entire movie about it

719
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:37,600
seven years later in 2009 i know what i

720
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:40,159
saw and you can see why just the the

721
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:42,559
number of witnesses and uh

722
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,919
you know it's very it's a very very

723
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:45,520
compelling story

724
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:47,440
you you mentioned to andy i think when

725
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,360
you interviewed randall nicholson i was

726
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:51,360
literally going to say oh yeah yeah yeah

727
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:53,360
go on you go ahead you did the interview

728
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:55,360
i'll let you say it just and i'm sure

729
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:56,720
it's the same thing but just the idea

730
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:58,240
that maybe the aerial phenomenon

731
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,799
incident happened at a time where it's

732
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,720
not the that point in time that's

733
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:04,400
relevant is what's going to happen down

734
00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:05,520
the line and the people that are

735
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:07,600
influenced and that it's only that now

736
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,600
the documentary is being made

737
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:11,679
that the story should be told and now is

738
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:13,039
the right time to tell that story and

739
00:24:15,909 --> 00:24:14,480
maybe the phoenix lights it's the same

740
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:15,919
sort of thing that

741
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:18,880
it's only going to be 25 30 years later

742
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,520
where in congress we see some satellite

743
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:23,600
imagery or we hear about data or it's

744
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:26,000
confirmed actually something was there

745
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:27,840
and maybe that's the point that story

746
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:29,520
becomes more relevant and i can have

747
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:32,000
bigger part in the disclosure movement

748
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:33,039
that

749
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,480
important and yep same could be said

750
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:38,240
maybe for roswell and any other event

751
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:40,400
that it happens when it happens but the

752
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:42,799
real impact hasn't seen for for decades

753
00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:44,640
and decades down the line so i take it

754
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:46,000
that's what you're going to bring up

755
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:47,840
yeah yeah exactly you know these things

756
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:49,039
are seeded in essentially at the

757
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,559
beginning of the age of communication

758
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:52,400
for us and then as we start being

759
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:53,440
connected through things like the

760
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:55,039
internet and mobile phones the story

761
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,880
kind of gets passed around and it starts

762
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,400
catalyzing it's something a lot more

763
00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:00,240
meaningful

764
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:02,200
yeah it's in a way it's sort of it's

765
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,559
materializing over time it's yeah it's

766
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:07,200
incredibly subtle in the past and and

767
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:08,880
and you get these little glimpses and

768
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:10,640
these various different seemingly

769
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,200
disconnected moments and and experiences

770
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:16,159
and as time seems to move forward those

771
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:17,760
events become more

772
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:19,760
clearly understood more crystalline and

773
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:22,159
then new events emerge which are even

774
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,000
clearer and i mean this may just be the

775
00:25:29,669 --> 00:25:26,240
trajectory that this is this entire sort

776
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:29,679
of story is going to take um you know to

777
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,760
me it's a i like this idea you know

778
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:34,000
because it's a very subtle way

779
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:36,000
of bringing

780
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:39,440
this new reality into our human society

781
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:41,520
it's not hitting us with a hammer it's

782
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:43,200
really you know kind of slowly

783
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:46,000
acclimating us to to this grander story

784
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:48,480
here so i i like an analogy and i'm

785
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:50,159
thinking that maybe it's like if at the

786
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:52,000
side of a road you planted a seed for a

787
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:53,039
tree

788
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:55,840
doesn't interfere with the traffic of

789
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,520
the road for a long long time but after

790
00:26:01,430 --> 00:26:00,159
30 40 or 50 years the tree gets bigger

791
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:01,440
and it's still not on the road but you

792
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:03,279
notice it more but then one day the

793
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:04,880
branches are going to hold over the road

794
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:06,080
they're going to bend over they're going

795
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:07,440
to start hitting the cars and people

796
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:08,799
take notice and have to do something

797
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,640
about it so maybe it's just that point

798
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:12,400
where it just takes a point for

799
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:14,240
something that's been there forever

800
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:15,840
to become more noticeable to you have to

801
00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:17,440
do something about it and maybe at that

802
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,760
point that's where these become relevant

803
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:21,360
i like that so so at the moment you

804
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:22,559
would say that we're at the point where

805
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:23,919
the branches of the phenomena are

806
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:25,520
hitting our car wind screens and we're

807
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:27,200
going oh crap this has been dangerous

808
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,640
you know what no they're not hitting the

809
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:30,320
car windscreens they're hitting the top

810
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:31,360
of the bus

811
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,039
so the buses going along that are double

812
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:35,600
deckers it's hitting those so only some

813
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,360
of us are noticing okay but those of us

814
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:39,440
who dirty sat at the top of the bus

815
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:41,679
the the car scum don't know

816
00:26:45,029 --> 00:26:42,880
yeah the cool kids are sitting at the

817
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:45,039
top of the bus yeah um

818
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,720
any more on phoenix lights before we

819
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:48,559
move on

820
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:49,760
i just had that it was a really good

821
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:52,559
example of you know we talk about these

822
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:54,240
cover-ups all the time that there are

823
00:26:57,269 --> 00:26:55,760
these kind of shady men in the shadows

824
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:57,279
kind of trying to hide everything and

825
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,640
actually in this instance it wasn't

826
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:00,880
needed five simonson did everything that

827
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:02,240
they would have been there to do and he

828
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:04,559
didn't need an influence at all we we

829
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:06,720
perpetuate the stigma ourselves without

830
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,919
any

831
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:09,200
men in black

832
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,480
that's right

833
00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:12,000
um we hear a lot of scientists and

834
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:14,159
experts coming up next discussing why

835
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:16,080
great distance is a big issue when it

836
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:18,320
comes to visitations from beings from

837
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:20,799
other galaxies so

838
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:22,960
again this is us looking at a problem in

839
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:24,960
a very human way and i think a lot of

840
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:27,039
scientists and academics have this same

841
00:27:29,669 --> 00:27:28,240
issue don't they it's almost like a

842
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:29,679
roadblock for them

843
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:31,520
and i find that again i've said before

844
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:33,120
on the podcast it's incredible that so

845
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:36,240
many scientific minds can be so

846
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:38,720
so reserved and like blocked off from

847
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:41,039
looking beyond what we can do now given

848
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:42,480
what's happened over like the hundreds

849
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:44,159
of thousands of years of civilizations

850
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,919
and that example of standing on a

851
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:47,440
shoreline and thinking how can you cross

852
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:48,480
that ocean

853
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:50,000
well that's just us right now looking

854
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:51,520
across the universe going yeah but we

855
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:53,039
can't do that but then someone comes

856
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,880
along in like a you know combustion

857
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,720
engine and suddenly they can fly the

858
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:58,720
oceans and that's just as someone's

859
00:28:01,590 --> 00:28:00,399
ahead of us with that they've solved

860
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,600
that problem

861
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,440
you know

862
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:05,440
is that too simple an argument though

863
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,960
and are these people right that it

864
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:09,360
really is such an existential leap that

865
00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:11,120
maybe we can't travel those distances

866
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:16,310
go ahead nathan

867
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,399
well i i completely disagree with that

868
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,559
notion that you know that we just can't

869
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,240
do it i think a lot of folks don't

870
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:24,000
realize how much creativity is required

871
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:26,240
in science you you know you do to do

872
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:28,720
good science and really push

873
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:30,559
the edges of scientific discovery you

874
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:33,039
have to be very creative and asking the

875
00:28:36,389 --> 00:28:34,559
right kinds of questions and creating

876
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:36,399
the right kinds of tests

877
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,880
for these ideas and it's just not very

878
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:40,480
easy to do particularly if we're talking

879
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:42,480
about ideas that aren't commonly

880
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:44,159
accepted so you just don't have a lot to

881
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,159
sort of build off of there i did like

882
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:48,240
the point in the movie that they uh

883
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:49,600
hinted at that

884
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:52,320
there's this sort of cycle of um

885
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:53,760
what is known and then like what the

886
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:55,919
imagination says what if we could do

887
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,000
this and how that then pushes the

888
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:00,480
science later on and it's it's kind of

889
00:29:04,789 --> 00:29:02,640
typically generational you know so you

890
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:04,799
you kind of are born into the state of

891
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:07,120
the world you see what science is

892
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,960
telling you is like what we can do what

893
00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:10,799
we're capable of and as a young person

894
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:14,080
who's not bound as much by those uh you

895
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:16,159
know constraints of a career or whatever

896
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,840
you're looking at that and going what if

897
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:19,840
we could do x y z what if we could just

898
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,760
warp this or whatever you're asking

899
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:23,520
crazy questions well those kids

900
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:25,520
eventually become adults and scientists

901
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:27,840
who end up pursuing those ideas and that

902
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,240
does push our science forward so it is a

903
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:32,159
it's kind of this it's frustrating but

904
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:34,960
it's also part of i think the way

905
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:37,760
our knowledge just grows uh you know

906
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:39,760
we're not gonna be able to get to some

907
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,080
radical discovery we rarely do anyway

908
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:44,399
just purely by accident we're kind of

909
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,080
getting there by

910
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:48,640
pushing against the known uh and

911
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:50,080
sometimes violently you know sometimes

912
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:51,600
we see something that's happening and we

913
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:54,240
we're so antagonistic to that that we

914
00:29:57,669 --> 00:29:56,080
can't accept it as truth and we're going

915
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:57,679
to be those pioneers who just kind of

916
00:30:02,549 --> 00:29:59,360
really push back against that and we get

917
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:02,559
these incredible discoveries or we don't

918
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:04,240
yeah i'm sure when humans took the first

919
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:05,520
flight you know there were a bunch of

920
00:30:09,029 --> 00:30:07,120
people that said this is impossible it's

921
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:09,039
not going to happen so on so forth and

922
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,720
actually it come down to two guys in a

923
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:12,480
field doing it on their own and changing

924
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:14,720
the entire world you know you go back 50

925
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:17,200
years before that point and everyone

926
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:18,960
just has a complete different mindset as

927
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:21,120
to what's possible and suddenly just by

928
00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:23,039
seeing that thing a whole bunch more

929
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:24,399
people got involved and developed the

930
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,320
planes that we know today but

931
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:28,080
fundamentally we're still using the same

932
00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:30,640
kind of technology you know dj would

933
00:30:34,549 --> 00:30:32,799
explain it that everything we make is

934
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:34,559
based on a wing shape

935
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:36,559
so to see something that doesn't use

936
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:38,559
that and to have these kids growing up

937
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:40,159
who are now starting to step into labs

938
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:41,679
who think you know what if what if this

939
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:43,520
is possible let's just try let's go down

940
00:30:48,149 --> 00:30:46,000
this road and see what we can do uh

941
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,159
it it's gonna move us down that path of

942
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,399
precision that we've been on since you

943
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:52,399
know the transistor was made and

944
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:53,600
everything's getting smaller and smaller

945
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,200
and we're gaining control over those

946
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:57,600
things so uh yeah

947
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:59,200
we're going to be you know jump ahead 50

948
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:01,200
years and we're going to have some

949
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:02,720
insane technologies there's a reason

950
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:04,640
that osap was looking at things in this

951
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:06,000
way

952
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:09,600
and right hand side comparison and one

953
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:10,960
of them is the iphone but on the other

954
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,200
side it's got the walkman it's got the

955
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:15,039
personal computer the diary and all this

956
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:16,240
technology and all this different all

957
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:18,080
these things we had and then it's like

958
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,840
steve jobs and co came along i mean yeah

959
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,120
we'll put it in this and it's in this

960
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:23,039
tiny little device and you look at the

961
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:25,200
next iteration of that what again 20

962
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:26,720
years later look at those generations

963
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:28,960
but you've got elon musk thinking i can

964
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:31,039
put a chip in everyone's head and it's

965
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:32,399
going to have all that information you

966
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:34,240
won't need the physical device anymore

967
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:35,840
and you know or you could do it with the

968
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:38,159
google glasses became a thing almost an

969
00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:40,080
apple glasses you know is that the way

970
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:41,840
it's going to go who knows but

971
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:43,200
all these different technologies that

972
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:44,559
just sometimes don't make it and

973
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:46,960
sometimes do and shout out to many discs

974
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:48,320
that were around for far too short i

975
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:51,200
like how many displays yes things yeah

976
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:52,880
they were just far too short of flame

977
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:55,360
but you know r.i.p to them in a disc um

978
00:31:58,830 --> 00:31:56,559
some of the younger listeners will be

979
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:58,840
going many different guns

980
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:00,799
yeah

981
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:04,960
talks about the film he saw that was

982
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:06,799
really interesting um but he never got

983
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:08,320
to actually see the physical raw film

984
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:10,320
footage um but talking about one of the

985
00:32:13,029 --> 00:32:11,600
landings and there's a few things like

986
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:13,039
that in there as well

987
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:14,720
edgar mitchell who was a key name in the

988
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:17,279
wilson davis memo um he discusses the

989
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:18,960
different cover-ups and the pressure

990
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:20,880
that officials were under to keep the

991
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:23,519
ufo secret under wraps

992
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:26,000
devil's advocate okay let's let's be for

993
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:27,679
a moment and dan i think you struggle

994
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:28,880
with this sometimes so i'm going to come

995
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,919
to you first

996
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:31,679
let's be on the side of the officials

997
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,480
here

998
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:34,640
why is it the right thing to keep all

999
00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:37,360
this information from the public

1000
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:39,200
well we've heard that

1001
00:32:42,389 --> 00:32:40,960
i mean on a base level let's look at

1002
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,399
what happened with kovid you know people

1003
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,159
ran out they panicked you you wouldn't

1004
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:47,039
want this explosive event that just

1005
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,399
announces that we're not alone in the

1006
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,679
universe because a lot of people would

1007
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:51,840
freak out so i can see why they would

1008
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:53,279
hold it back for that reason but as well

1009
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:54,480
as that we've been told that this

1010
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:56,480
technology is deceptively simple

1011
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:59,279
and we also think that it outputs an

1012
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:00,960
enormous amount of power

1013
00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:03,360
so if it's simple and you know it's used

1014
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,880
for destruction we're not looking at two

1015
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:06,320
buildings being destroyed in new york

1016
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:07,200
now we're looking at new york

1017
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:09,120
disappearing off the map so i can

1018
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:10,720
understand why they'd be reluctant to

1019
00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:12,240
share something like that but from a

1020
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:14,399
more cynical point of view

1021
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:17,360
if the us military had some technology

1022
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:19,360
like this they would want that to be

1023
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:21,039
able to rule over everybody else in a

1024
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:22,399
nutshell right

1025
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:23,679
they'd want that power for themselves

1026
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:26,000
and for no one else to have it

1027
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:27,679
nathan same question

1028
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:30,399
yeah i i to me i'm in this camp of

1029
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:31,200
it's

1030
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:33,519
understandable why they would have tried

1031
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:36,559
to keep the lid on this that uh

1032
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,159
you know maybe initially it seemed like

1033
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:40,399
something we probably had a decent grasp

1034
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:41,360
of or

1035
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:42,640
and you kind of hear about this too

1036
00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:44,320
there there were moments in the in the

1037
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,320
history here where looked like they were

1038
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,240
about to kind of come out and say you

1039
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,320
know here's what's going on but i think

1040
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:52,799
they realized it was much more complex

1041
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:55,279
than they initially thought and to such

1042
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:57,360
a degree of complexity that we don't

1043
00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:00,159
fully quite know what it is and uh you

1044
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,240
know from my standpoint

1045
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:04,159
as much as i hate this you know we live

1046
00:34:08,790 --> 00:34:07,200
in you know highly connected societies

1047
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:08,800
uh we

1048
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:11,440
you know a lot of us have um

1049
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:12,960
you know access to things that can do a

1050
00:34:16,149 --> 00:34:14,480
lot of harm whether that's just a

1051
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:16,159
vehicle you're driving or you know if

1052
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,280
you live in a country you can buy a

1053
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:19,440
firearm and you can do some real damage

1054
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:21,119
and i think you know the governments

1055
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:23,359
have a responsibility to

1056
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:25,520
uh you know study this to the extent

1057
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:27,119
they can kind of understand what it is

1058
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,560
before they then just lay it on

1059
00:34:31,990 --> 00:34:30,480
everybody's lap and say well good luck

1060
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,000
you know hope everybody can figure this

1061
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,560
out we don't really know what it is so

1062
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:36,159
you know hope you have a good day

1063
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:37,839
tomorrow at the office and take the kids

1064
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:39,440
to school i mean it's just it's so it's

1065
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,720
so huge

1066
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,480
so i do think that's the reason why it's

1067
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:44,480
taken so long to to get to this point

1068
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:46,159
and why we still see that pressure

1069
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:47,200
against

1070
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:48,960
uh this coming forward because i'm not

1071
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:51,599
sure that they really have the answers

1072
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:53,520
staying with you nathan how do you feel

1073
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:54,560
when you see

1074
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:56,560
astronauts coming out and talking on

1075
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:58,800
this subject in terms of being authority

1076
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:00,640
figures i think we've got quite used to

1077
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,960
to pilots and navy personnel recently

1078
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,880
coming out and cia you know intelligence

1079
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:07,119
officials coming out more and more but

1080
00:35:11,349 --> 00:35:09,440
gordon cooper edgar mitchell and others

1081
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:11,359
that have spoken buzz aldrin um

1082
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:13,359
discusses the subject quite a lot even

1083
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:15,440
nowadays he's his elderly years as well

1084
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,720
which is great

1085
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:18,400
where do you sit as in terms of

1086
00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:20,160
authority figures like astronauts coming

1087
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:22,079
out and chatting on the subject

1088
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:23,680
i think it's great i i think that

1089
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:25,520
they're they represent some of the best

1090
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:28,560
of humanity um they're you know often

1091
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:30,320
scientists themselves that were there

1092
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:32,320
they they've been pilots themselves they

1093
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:33,680
you know these are people who are highly

1094
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:36,880
trained who uh are very rational they're

1095
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:38,240
they're excellent under pressure you

1096
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,520
can't be an astronaut if you're gonna

1097
00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:41,520
panic in a in a situation that's very

1098
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:43,359
stressful so these are people that you

1099
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:45,200
know that you would want to trust with

1100
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:46,720
your kids you know like i mean they're

1101
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:48,480
they're they're they're stan upstanding

1102
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:51,440
people in in society and i think that uh

1103
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:52,800
the more that they can come forward with

1104
00:35:56,550 --> 00:35:54,640
their personal experiences

1105
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:56,560
uh and even their speculations i think

1106
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:58,400
that that's incredibly valuable to the

1107
00:36:02,069 --> 00:35:59,520
broader

1108
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,079
acceptance of this story and narrative

1109
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,240
in our culture so i i definitely welcome

1110
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,400
that even if they

1111
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:07,760
have not had an experience we're at

1112
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,520
least open and i think we're seeing more

1113
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:11,280
a little bit more that now they're open

1114
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,480
to this being

1115
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:15,040
something that could in fact be here uh

1116
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,240
you know even though they themselves

1117
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:18,560
have never seen anything in space

1118
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:19,760
done

1119
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,760
uh well i was just going to throw in i

1120
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:23,119
completely agree what nathan said there

1121
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:24,640
about these being you know very highly

1122
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:27,119
respected people very experienced people

1123
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,200
but there's there's some woo that comes

1124
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:30,960
into the subject through some of these

1125
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:32,480
astronauts where i think it was edgar

1126
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,800
mitchell actually tried some kind of

1127
00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:36,640
telepathy experiments and remote viewing

1128
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:38,800
experiments as he was off the earth and

1129
00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:39,760
i don't think we've ever seen the

1130
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:41,359
results of those but it speaks to how

1131
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:44,560
open-minded these pilots are

1132
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:46,560
i think we all expect astronauts that

1133
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:47,839
when they go up there that they're going

1134
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:48,960
to look out the window and like i

1135
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:50,720
suppose any of us would just be glued to

1136
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:52,640
the window wouldn't we and be hoping to

1137
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:54,800
see oh there's a saucer flying by well

1138
00:36:58,710 --> 00:36:56,720
there's a fleet of mother ships over

1139
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:58,720
there just behind the moon and is that

1140
00:37:02,230 --> 00:36:59,839
what it would look like and it's

1141
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,240
probably not but you would imagine or

1142
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:03,920
hope they would all see certain things

1143
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:05,280
and some of the the more modern

1144
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,280
astronauts i always get mixed up whether

1145
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:09,520
it was tim peake or chris hadfield had

1146
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:11,200
been quite derogatory about the ufo

1147
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,800
subject in terms of i think that the

1148
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:14,880
claim was you know you're stupid if you

1149
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:16,720
think that oh yeah that was happening

1150
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:19,520
hadfield yeah i thought so um and and

1151
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:21,040
he's entitled his opinion but i just i

1152
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:22,560
just feel someone who's went up there

1153
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:24,240
and seen the enormity of space you know

1154
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:25,920
for themselves which must be just the

1155
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:26,960
most

1156
00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:30,320
mind-blowing thing to see and comprehend

1157
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:31,680
i don't think it's something that any of

1158
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:33,440
us could just go up and see and not be

1159
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:35,680
like you have your brain melt just

1160
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:38,320
because it'd be so hard to imagine what

1161
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:40,240
you're actually looking at this void but

1162
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:41,680
to come out and just say you're an idiot

1163
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:43,680
if you think any of these things are so

1164
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:45,359
it's really interesting to have that

1165
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:47,839
comparison and buzz aldrin has talked

1166
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:49,359
about monoliths on different planets

1167
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:50,480
hasn't he and

1168
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:51,839
again you would look at the circles

1169
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:52,960
these people running and their

1170
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:54,880
connections but then do they get fed a

1171
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:56,400
little bit of misinformation do their

1172
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,720
own imaginations run away with them

1173
00:38:01,750 --> 00:38:00,480
sometimes as well and they hear what

1174
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,760
they want to hear with an interest in

1175
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:03,119
the subject but

1176
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:04,640
but yeah it's great to hear these these

1177
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:06,320
people obviously many of them know

1178
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:08,560
having passed away um it would be nice

1179
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:11,200
if some of the

1180
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,520
the present modern astronauts would come

1181
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:15,119
out and get more involved in a subject

1182
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:16,320
in terms of you know let's talk about

1183
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,599
ufos and

1184
00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:18,960
even if one of them came out i suppose

1185
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:20,640
that would be huge if nasa could come

1186
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:22,320
out and say well we've got people on

1187
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:24,800
board iss just now and we're reporting

1188
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:26,720
an object because we see enough footage

1189
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:28,240
of it don't we

1190
00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:30,720
yeah we we have um tim peake in the uk

1191
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:32,560
who recently spoke up on a morning tv

1192
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:34,240
show he was asked about it and he spoke

1193
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:35,920
with respect on the subject and he took

1194
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:37,760
it seriously that was very encouraging

1195
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:40,640
to see because i contacted him last year

1196
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:42,720
and he was a bit cagey to speak about it

1197
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:44,800
just didn't really believe it whereas

1198
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:46,480
now he's deferring to his colleagues who

1199
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:47,760
have seen these things and when i say

1200
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:48,880
colleagues i mean you know service

1201
00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:50,960
members um and taking them seriously

1202
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:52,240
instead of deriding them like chris

1203
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:54,320
hadfield did

1204
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:56,160
yeah i mean andy that that what you just

1205
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:57,839
said there it would be amazing if we had

1206
00:39:01,829 --> 00:38:59,680
that kind of footage from the iss i mean

1207
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:01,839
think about the impact that would have

1208
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:04,320
on society just to be able to

1209
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:05,920
put it all out there because i think

1210
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:08,320
that that's almost like the tied up with

1211
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:10,240
a neat bow sort of image you know you're

1212
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:12,079
already in space we're in space there

1213
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:13,680
they are they're zooming up next to the

1214
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:15,520
porthole and that that's kind of the

1215
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:18,240
classic experience that people may might

1216
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:20,640
be looking for so you know it does beg

1217
00:39:24,550 --> 00:39:22,400
the question why you know why not have

1218
00:39:27,589 --> 00:39:24,560
that and how much uh

1219
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:27,599
screening takes place of what is being

1220
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:29,599
you know recorded or shared from from

1221
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:31,280
what is from these platforms that

1222
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:32,640
operate in space

1223
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:34,720
with nasa being more involved now and we

1224
00:39:38,069 --> 00:39:36,240
would hope they're poring over this

1225
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:38,079
historical archival footage they must

1226
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:40,400
have and dan we discussed this didn't we

1227
00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:41,839
i would love if nasa would come out and

1228
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:43,599
say look all these videos the tether

1229
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,960
incident you know

1230
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:46,560
any number of things that could be

1231
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,079
something and they came out and said

1232
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:50,240
look this one is definitely ice crystals

1233
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:52,400
and here's why this one is just junk in

1234
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:54,800
the background and here's why however

1235
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:56,720
here are some actual videos that we

1236
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,320
truly think something anomalous has

1237
00:40:02,069 --> 00:40:00,160
captured on camera and we're

1238
00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:02,079
investigating it and you know what if if

1239
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:03,520
we can get to that point i would be

1240
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:06,400
happy as in terms of progress people can

1241
00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:08,240
i think want too much for nasa to come

1242
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:10,400
out as if nasa's a sentient being in

1243
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:12,720
itself and comes out and says yes we

1244
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:14,720
know the aliens are true are real and we

1245
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,079
know where they are and we see them all

1246
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:18,560
the time nasa is like the government at

1247
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:21,040
a department it's a company it's it's

1248
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:23,359
made up of employees and offices and

1249
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,760
personnel and a board of directors and

1250
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:27,359
people making decisions

1251
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:28,240
and

1252
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:29,760
there's no there's no file in the

1253
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:31,200
offices there that says oh don't go in

1254
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:32,720
that one that's got the alien stuff in

1255
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,040
it so hopefully i think there's still

1256
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:37,359
that really romantic notion that nasa

1257
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:39,200
could be really involved going forward

1258
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:39,920
and

1259
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:43,040
that's what i hope the james webb

1260
00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:45,200
telescope i'd be really happy if in

1261
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:47,440
terms of a real disclosure push if you

1262
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:49,040
want to call it that

1263
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,720
they spotted something with the james

1264
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:52,720
webb you know like the we heard that the

1265
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:55,119
rumors of bright biden being handed a

1266
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:57,040
brief and it was like we think we've

1267
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:58,640
seen something and blah blah blah maybe

1268
00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:00,319
it's something that does happen

1269
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:02,240
and the only confirmation we get for

1270
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:03,680
many years is we think we've seen

1271
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:05,440
something with a telescope we think it's

1272
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:07,359
a an object that's been made by

1273
00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:08,319
something

1274
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,760
way out in a distance and we have to

1275
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:11,280
investigate but it's going to take some

1276
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:14,000
time and that would be a nice soft drip

1277
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:15,359
disclosure i think for the public

1278
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:17,280
because then people go oh

1279
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:18,960
nasa think they've found something but

1280
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,359
really far away

1281
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:23,520
and we've had a kind of

1282
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,880
almost a similar thing you know remember

1283
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:26,720
when uh we found uh i think was

1284
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,560
phosphine on venus and we thought that

1285
00:41:32,309 --> 00:41:30,240
that kind of said that there was life

1286
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:32,319
there and since then we found actually

1287
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:34,240
it's probably not what we thought it was

1288
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:36,319
but it speaks to the process of science

1289
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:37,760
that you'll get that drip feed you'll

1290
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:39,680
get that peer review you'll get people

1291
00:41:44,309 --> 00:41:43,040
confirming it it's not going to be

1292
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:44,319
there was a document floating around

1293
00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:45,680
when james webb

1294
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:47,440
when they put up the initial pictures i

1295
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:49,280
think you said it to me andy um and just

1296
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,800
said you know this is probably fake but

1297
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:52,880
what if how cool would that be and and

1298
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:53,920
it was basically saying that they'd

1299
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:56,319
found something already and the big flag

1300
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:57,920
that went up for me was just literally

1301
00:42:01,109 --> 00:42:00,079
how quickly that had happened i think

1302
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:01,119
they would try and keep something like

1303
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:03,119
that under wraps and you you get kind of

1304
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:04,800
leaky places all over the world as

1305
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:07,599
different labs checked but uh yeah

1306
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:09,200
there would be a process and it would

1307
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:11,280
take years and weed acclimatize to it so

1308
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:13,280
by the time we got to confirming it

1309
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:14,720
everyone on earth would just kind of be

1310
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:16,000
living with the fact that we're not

1311
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:17,920
alone yeah this was the idea they'd

1312
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:19,680
pointed something at tabby's star which

1313
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:22,640
the hypothesis might be there's a dyson

1314
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:24,480
sphere been built around it

1315
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:26,800
some sort of like physical object and

1316
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:28,880
they've as

1317
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:30,400
an object of interest i've pointed the

1318
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:32,560
james webb at it and found something

1319
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:34,720
and obviously it's a heavily redacted uh

1320
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:36,880
document but it came out and yeah and

1321
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:38,720
it's one of those it's probably not real

1322
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:41,680
it would be very easy to mock up but

1323
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:43,760
that's also what real would look like i

1324
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:45,760
imagine given it's just a document so

1325
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:47,440
imagine biden did get handed something

1326
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:48,880
and it's like what do you want to do and

1327
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:50,400
it was a case of for now let's just keep

1328
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,920
this to ourselves

1329
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:53,200
that would be a pretty cool way for me

1330
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:54,640
though of having that kind of disclosure

1331
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,720
to the public of because then i don't

1332
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,560
think it's a huge leap to

1333
00:43:01,349 --> 00:43:00,000
there might be things visiting here as

1334
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:01,359
well and i think the general public at

1335
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:02,960
that point would start asking those

1336
00:43:07,030 --> 00:43:05,040
questions and be more open to those

1337
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:07,040
conversations because you just then

1338
00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:09,359
bring things incrementally closer to

1339
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:11,839
home don't you

1340
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:13,520
at the moment it's nice and safe right

1341
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:16,079
uh tom alluded to it in an interview he

1342
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:18,079
said that you know we keep talking about

1343
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:19,280
these things as if they're from other

1344
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:20,800
planets but that puts them really far

1345
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:22,000
away and we don't have to be scared that

1346
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:23,280
these things have come into our homes in

1347
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:24,560
the night and take us you know it's

1348
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:26,240
nothing we have to be concerned with but

1349
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:27,839
the reality seems to be that they're

1350
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:30,079
here and that's that's a much scarier

1351
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,520
thing to face

1352
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,440
so bringing it much closer to home then

1353
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:35,599
we hear of warheads being shot down by

1354
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:38,160
saucers firing beams of light at rockets

1355
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:40,079
and we are apparently this footage

1356
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,240
exists and these things are flying

1357
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:44,079
thousands of miles an hour alongside

1358
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:46,240
rockets documents are then shown that

1359
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:47,680
confirm the conclusion was it was

1360
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:49,599
potentially an extraterrestrial craft

1361
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,200
involved and the footage was taken away

1362
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:53,280
and not seen again and maybe this is the

1363
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:54,720
sort of footage that would end up in

1364
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,160
some of these classified briefings you

1365
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:58,079
know it might be something from the 80s

1366
00:44:02,150 --> 00:44:00,720
and 90s that generals are your rubios

1367
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,160
your warner's your gila brands are

1368
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:04,560
seeing now of look here's a missile that

1369
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:06,000
actually is being shot down by this

1370
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:07,520
object next to it and we don't know what

1371
00:44:10,550 --> 00:44:08,400
that is

1372
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,560
um that would be pretty cool we see a

1373
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:12,480
much younger looking robert salas

1374
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:14,560
discussing the incidents that we know of

1375
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,880
like those at malmstrom where nuclear

1376
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:18,319
missiles have been interfered with by

1377
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:19,599
ufos

1378
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:21,359
i want to ask you nathan

1379
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:24,000
why do we hear of some rockets being

1380
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:26,480
shot down or disarmed yet hundreds if

1381
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:28,720
not thousands of incidents happen every

1382
00:44:32,950 --> 00:44:31,280
year including nuclear tests and nothing

1383
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:32,960
happens and obviously louis zondo made

1384
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:34,960
that point himself didn't he that people

1385
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:36,319
wait on you know if a nuclear war

1386
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:37,680
happened don't worry the aliens will

1387
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:39,920
save us and it's like well they didn't

1388
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:42,160
stop all these other tests and

1389
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:43,359
you know that are being carried out all

1390
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:44,560
the time so

1391
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,319
why did it do it sometimes but then

1392
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,160
others to just allow it to happen

1393
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:50,640
right yeah i i and i know that salas

1394
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,520
kind of

1395
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:53,520
lands on this uh

1396
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:56,079
sort of argument that this is them

1397
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:57,920
you know sort of telling us not to play

1398
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:00,560
with these kinds of toys not to pursue

1399
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,560
new nuclear power to dismantle our

1400
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,400
warheads and that kind of thing and you

1401
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:06,400
know to your point andy i i think that's

1402
00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:08,400
kind of the really rosy

1403
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,800
view of that encounter

1404
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,400
to me it really just it's an

1405
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:14,880
illustration of the the high strangeness

1406
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:17,440
of the phenomenon it's you know yes it's

1407
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:19,760
a flexing of their muscles and it's oh

1408
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:20,800
look what they can do they're very

1409
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:22,319
capable can do pretty much what you know

1410
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:23,920
anything that they they wish to do with

1411
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,520
our technology

1412
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,200
but i don't think we can take another

1413
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:29,440
step another leap from that and say oh

1414
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,800
they're you know they're going to

1415
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:32,640
protect us from an all-out you know sort

1416
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:35,359
of holocaust or or you know reactors

1417
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:37,119
melting down or whatever because you

1418
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:38,319
know clearly that hasn't happened

1419
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:40,560
there's been a lot of loss of life in

1420
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:42,640
over time with our experimentation with

1421
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:44,480
this technology and they're not stepping

1422
00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:46,960
in each time and saying whoa no not this

1423
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,640
is a bridge too far you know i just

1424
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:51,200
think that that's a you know a very

1425
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:52,880
generous perspective

1426
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:55,599
on their motivations um that is probably

1427
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:58,000
heavily influenced by our own biases

1428
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:59,119
knowing how

1429
00:46:02,630 --> 00:46:00,240
incredibly destructive these

1430
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:02,640
technologies are

1431
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:03,760
done

1432
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:06,079
we always talk about the

1433
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,760
the idea of a more advanced civilization

1434
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:09,280
encountering a less advanced one and we

1435
00:46:13,510 --> 00:46:11,280
we think again anthropomorphically like

1436
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:13,520
about human history and you know the

1437
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:14,880
spanish encountering the mayans and so

1438
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:17,599
on so forth and how that rolled out but

1439
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:19,760
i always like to remind people that

1440
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,400
though the general kind of broad stroke

1441
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:24,480
there seems to be the the more advanced

1442
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:26,400
civilization will wipe out the lesser

1443
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:27,760
one

1444
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:28,560
there

1445
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:31,359
basically the

1446
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:33,760
the natives were helping uh the advanced

1447
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,599
civilization kind of do their thing so

1448
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:37,119
it's not as clear-cut as the they're

1449
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:39,760
gonna kind of you know wipe out the

1450
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:43,040
the less advanced civilization but

1451
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:44,640
there's certainly an argument to be made

1452
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:47,200
that in those cases where

1453
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:48,480
the less advanced civilization has

1454
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:49,920
survived

1455
00:46:55,349 --> 00:46:53,599
because they had time to prepare and

1456
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:55,359
that's kind of where we are now i think

1457
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:57,920
we we can admit that this is real we can

1458
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:59,280
prepare we can start tracking these

1459
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:01,440
things um or we can bury our heads in

1460
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:03,440
the sand and when they show up and they

1461
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:05,040
start you know turning off these

1462
00:47:09,910 --> 00:47:07,359
missiles again um

1463
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:09,920
we're screwed in a nutshell because they

1464
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:12,319
don't have any way i say they you know

1465
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,839
when when the 10 missiles were shut down

1466
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:15,359
at malmstrom

1467
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:17,119
had a nuclear attack being launched on

1468
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:19,040
the usa there would be no protection

1469
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:21,040
against that whatsoever and though it

1470
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:22,400
might be an innocent thing and a way to

1471
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:24,000
demonstrate hey we're in full control we

1472
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:25,119
can stop you doing these things if you

1473
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:28,079
want um it's dangerous to us it's really

1474
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,599
dangerous and they might not be aware of

1475
00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:31,520
how dangerous that is

1476
00:47:36,549 --> 00:47:33,440
why not just go around and disable all

1477
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:36,559
the nooks worldwide permanently

1478
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:40,480
i i see it more as a demonstration of

1479
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:42,400
how powerless we are in the face of them

1480
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:44,240
as opposed to them saying they're gonna

1481
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:46,240
save us or anything like that that kind

1482
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:48,400
of thing

1483
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:49,680
doesn't make me laugh but it makes me

1484
00:47:54,390 --> 00:47:52,000
concerned because it's it's a little

1485
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:54,400
naive to think that anyone is here to

1486
00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:56,480
help us we we always talk about you know

1487
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,720
stephen griez says they're benevolent

1488
00:48:02,150 --> 00:48:00,800
other people say they're malevolent and

1489
00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:02,160
truly

1490
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:03,599
it's probably a spectrum like it is with

1491
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:05,440
humanity you know

1492
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:07,280
you can't say that

1493
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:08,720
what about the potential though that we

1494
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:10,079
always think that they're showing us

1495
00:48:13,190 --> 00:48:11,440
something but what if they themselves

1496
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:13,200
are testing their own equipment to can

1497
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:14,640
we turn these off

1498
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:17,040
and that for them it's a test in itself

1499
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:18,480
of yeah that worked

1500
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:20,640
yeah quite possibly and and we we heard

1501
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:23,599
from i think it was uh the italy cases

1502
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:26,960
in unidentified where they said

1503
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,800
literally that the only way to harm ufos

1504
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:30,640
is when they're in a certain mode and to

1505
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:32,800
hit them with depleted uranium shells

1506
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:35,119
we're talking nuclear material so they

1507
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,240
could have just been trying to figure

1508
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,160
out a way to disarm us we've often joked

1509
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:40,480
that them coming down and making us all

1510
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:42,240
kind of peaceful hippies and switching

1511
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,839
off our nukes is a really good way to

1512
00:48:46,829 --> 00:48:45,839
get us to be defenseless when if they

1513
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:46,839
want to take the

1514
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:49,599
planet right they have an area of effect

1515
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:52,079
as well maybe it's uh you know not they

1516
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:54,079
can't do it sort of unilaterally across

1517
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:57,119
the board that one uap

1518
00:49:01,829 --> 00:48:59,839
has a impact zone of i don't know 20 30

1519
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:01,839
miles or whatever and that's just what

1520
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:04,800
they can do it's an excellent question

1521
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:06,960
yeah cool as we go on the documentary

1522
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:08,640
now it's kind of over halfway i think it

1523
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:11,280
starts to get repetitive not necessarily

1524
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,960
in a bad baby we start to hear from some

1525
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:15,280
russian air force people um we hear

1526
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:16,720
about different sightings different

1527
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:18,960
experiences we hear about rendelsham we

1528
00:49:23,430 --> 00:49:20,559
hear about roswell and it's kind of

1529
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:23,440
standard ufo docu documentary stuff i

1530
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,720
don't necessarily want to sit and go

1531
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:26,559
over rendosham and roswell and stuff

1532
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:27,599
again i think they're very well

1533
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:29,200
documented cases they've been talked

1534
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:30,480
about quite a lot

1535
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:32,319
is there anything before we start taking

1536
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:34,319
a wrap up on the end of the documentary

1537
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:35,440
you two would want to bring in that

1538
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:37,200
you've got notes on at all dan start

1539
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:38,400
with yourself

1540
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:40,079
i mean so

1541
00:49:43,990 --> 00:49:41,680
firstly i'm only going to touch on

1542
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:44,000
randallstrom here because in the segment

1543
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:45,599
in the film they they went to great

1544
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:46,960
lengths to say that there were no

1545
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:51,280
landing legs on on the aircraft and then

1546
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:53,280
they went on to show indents in the

1547
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:54,960
ground that they thought were from uh

1548
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:56,400
from legs and i was just like well which

1549
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:57,680
is it what's going on there's almost

1550
00:50:01,829 --> 00:50:00,079
like two different stories here and uh

1551
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:01,839
it tickled me immensely that it was nick

1552
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:04,000
pope that actually put that forward

1553
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,800
former ufo investigator for the mod nick

1554
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:08,640
pope as his title was

1555
00:50:13,829 --> 00:50:11,280
roma performance filing secretary for

1556
00:50:15,270 --> 00:50:13,839
the mod uh if people don't know it was

1557
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:15,280
the i-55 that actually did the

1558
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,200
investigating for the uk as opposed to

1559
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:19,040
nick pope nick probably filed things and

1560
00:50:22,710 --> 00:50:20,880
they went to the i-55 to the actual

1561
00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:22,720
people that did the work i i've always

1562
00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:23,839
thought there are speaks volumes that

1563
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,520
nick himself has never meant to calvin

1564
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:27,599
although he rides his

1565
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:29,839
that calvin image and built a career out

1566
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:32,480
of it um i know we've discussed that

1567
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:34,160
thing like yeah i have nothing against

1568
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:35,680
nick pope at all and let's see i went to

1569
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:37,760
see him live years ago now doing a talk

1570
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:39,040
and a presentation he's a really

1571
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:41,680
interesting character but i think

1572
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:43,520
the general just again folks with nick

1573
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:46,319
pope is very short but if mulder and

1574
00:50:49,109 --> 00:50:48,240
scully had a receptionist outside their

1575
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:49,119
office

1576
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:51,040
it would be like the x-files were about

1577
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:52,640
the receptionist outside mulder and

1578
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:54,880
scully's office essentially that's what

1579
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:57,280
what it was yeah yeah yeah yeah i would

1580
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:59,440
say so um

1581
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:01,440
the documentary went on to highlight

1582
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:03,520
nasa's changing stance

1583
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:05,599
what if um what if the ghostbusters just

1584
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:12,150
yeah she takes the call and then they go

1585
00:51:15,910 --> 00:51:13,520
out but you just the camera just stays

1586
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:15,920
on her for the rest of the episode

1587
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,960
yeah

1588
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:18,400
pretty cheap show as well that would

1589
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:19,280
work

1590
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:20,880
um i i liked how it emphasized that it's

1591
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:23,119
a worldwide phenomena we had eisenhower

1592
00:51:26,230 --> 00:51:24,240
brought up with the whole

1593
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:26,240
military-industrial complex and how that

1594
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:28,400
was kind of founded in the same

1595
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:30,559
the same era that the ufo kind of wave

1596
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,880
started um it highlighted nasa's

1597
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:34,319
shifting

1598
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:39,280
from quite derisive to now we actually

1599
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:42,400
have uh a funded study that's happening

1600
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,640
uh that they're gearing up for so that's

1601
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:47,280
kind of a sea change there and i i also

1602
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:49,359
like that it highlighted the comita

1603
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:53,200
report uh from france and i'd recommend

1604
00:51:55,829 --> 00:51:53,920
if

1605
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:55,839
people haven't read that go read it

1606
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:57,839
because it's as good as the documentary

1607
00:52:02,950 --> 00:51:59,839
makes out and right on the front cover

1608
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:02,960
there is that late code picture uh where

1609
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,520
uh a disk seemingly appeared in one

1610
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:07,200
photo that was it they would take in

1611
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:10,240
basically uh a photo every so often and

1612
00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:11,760
in one of these photos it seems that a

1613
00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:13,440
disk appeared and we helped kind of

1614
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:14,559
release a

1615
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:16,800
a higher resolution version of that with

1616
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:19,200
uap media not too long ago so jump on

1617
00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:20,960
uap media anyone who's listening and

1618
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:22,240
have a look at the photo it's a very

1619
00:52:26,309 --> 00:52:24,000
compelling photo when we didn't conclude

1620
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:26,319
on it it is what it is uh have a look

1621
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:29,520
and yeah just see how you feel about it

1622
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:31,119
nathan

1623
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:33,119
well i think the you know fox has done a

1624
00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:35,520
good job here making a a broad argument

1625
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:38,400
for the validity of this topic you know

1626
00:52:42,230 --> 00:52:40,240
to me it's quite impressive

1627
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:42,240
uh and anyone who's studied this

1628
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:44,960
uh for any amount of time

1629
00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:47,520
you know can kind of spot this as well

1630
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:49,599
there's definitely a there there even

1631
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:51,760
with the sort of limited data that we

1632
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:53,760
have i mean and keep in mind that a lot

1633
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:56,480
of these uh sort of anecdotes

1634
00:53:02,549 --> 00:52:59,359
and uh you know historical accounts and

1635
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:02,559
you know from reagan and carter and ford

1636
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,240
and all these other presidents i mean

1637
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:06,640
this is stuff that we're just sort of

1638
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:08,960
taking at the top level and putting this

1639
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:11,359
picture together there's so much more

1640
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:14,480
information that has to exist under that

1641
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:15,920
under that surface layer if we've been

1642
00:53:20,230 --> 00:53:17,920
able to kind of construct this

1643
00:53:21,510 --> 00:53:20,240
you know amount of uh of a picture with

1644
00:53:23,670 --> 00:53:21,520
just that kind of little bit of

1645
00:53:25,990 --> 00:53:23,680
information i think that you know should

1646
00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:26,000
be pretty compelling uh to anyone and i

1647
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:27,760
think you know james does an excellent

1648
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:28,720
job

1649
00:53:32,870 --> 00:53:30,559
you know trying to methodically lay this

1650
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:32,880
out that it's not just you know a couple

1651
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:34,720
of weird witness accounts it's a it's a

1652
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:36,480
broader phenomenon and there's been you

1653
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:38,240
know very official people who have

1654
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:40,480
looked into this there have been efforts

1655
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:43,599
that clearly were designed to fail there

1656
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:45,440
have been efforts that were

1657
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:47,680
much more productive that's you know the

1658
00:53:50,309 --> 00:53:49,440
commuter report is an excellent example

1659
00:53:52,069 --> 00:53:50,319
of that

1660
00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:52,079
um the only thing that i you know kind

1661
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:54,160
of wrote down that

1662
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:56,000
other than nick pope with an exclamation

1663
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,839
point when he came on screen

1664
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:59,280
was uh

1665
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:01,200
nick pope he's very charismatic i like

1666
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,800
listening to nick is that the metal gear

1667
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:05,119
solid exclamation point nick paul

1668
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:08,160
exactly exactly um you know but what

1669
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:09,760
really struck me

1670
00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:11,280
something that i've we kind of touched

1671
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:12,559
on at the beginning of the of the

1672
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:14,880
conversation um

1673
00:54:19,030 --> 00:54:16,480
you know going back to

1674
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:19,040
bob jacobs and

1675
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,400
robert salas and their experiences there

1676
00:54:25,270 --> 00:54:24,000
and anyone who's kind of studied those

1677
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:25,280
guys a little bit know that they put out

1678
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:27,280
a book um

1679
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:29,760
called confessions which basically

1680
00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:31,599
reveal they're both experiencers you

1681
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:34,000
know so i've been playing with this idea

1682
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:35,200
that

1683
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:38,160
of if if there's no sort of linear time

1684
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:39,760
that you know that there's sort of a

1685
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:41,280
causality a lot like we think of

1686
00:54:45,510 --> 00:54:43,599
causality in terms of this happens and

1687
00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:45,520
then this next moment this thing happens

1688
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,960
and we're looking at things we're

1689
00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:48,720
looking at our stories in that way too

1690
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:50,799
you know very sequentially

1691
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:52,880
if you kind of throw that notion out and

1692
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:55,680
think of time more uh sort of as a block

1693
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:57,040
universe or

1694
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:59,040
uh you know time can flow one direction

1695
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,880
the other a lot of these

1696
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:02,079
experiences

1697
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:04,160
in some ways make more sense to me you

1698
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:06,640
know that that these guys who

1699
00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:08,160
were right there when these events

1700
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:10,880
occurred also happen to be experiencers

1701
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,520
it makes me wonder is it if there's some

1702
00:55:17,510 --> 00:55:15,200
kind of uh

1703
00:55:19,270 --> 00:55:17,520
you know deeper connection uh almost

1704
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:19,280
like a deeper tuning

1705
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:21,760
that they have to the events themselves

1706
00:55:24,789 --> 00:55:23,280
you know that because when they when

1707
00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:24,799
those things happen

1708
00:55:29,109 --> 00:55:26,799
they're portrayed to us as these sort of

1709
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:29,119
passive participants in in just doing

1710
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:31,280
their jobs you know but what if that's

1711
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:33,040
not really the reality what if it's

1712
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:35,359
something much more complicated that

1713
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:38,000
they themselves have a part in what was

1714
00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:40,000
actually taking place that they are

1715
00:55:44,309 --> 00:55:42,880
related to the event in some deeper way

1716
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:44,319
that we're just not really seeing

1717
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:45,920
because we only think of it as a

1718
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:50,000
sequence of things that happen i think

1719
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,599
i was just going to say the work of gary

1720
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:54,160
nolan um and the code putamen we also

1721
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,599
look at the the kind of the spindle

1722
00:55:59,109 --> 00:55:57,599
cells um

1723
00:56:01,270 --> 00:55:59,119
all of these experience seems to have

1724
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:01,280
these things in common and we often ask

1725
00:56:06,069 --> 00:56:03,359
ourselves do their encounters cause this

1726
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:06,079
change in their physiology and i i agree

1727
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:07,680
with nathan there might be something

1728
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:09,200
there that says these people are more

1729
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:10,880
likely to experience this because they

1730
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:13,520
have a physical difference

1731
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:15,359
yeah some some of the stuff again just

1732
00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:18,160
to finish up on with the lines that um

1733
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:19,760
an actual physicist is talking about you

1734
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:21,680
know blue blue book the condom report

1735
00:56:24,549 --> 00:56:23,040
and these sorts of things and the

1736
00:56:26,309 --> 00:56:24,559
pressure from congress led to these

1737
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:26,319
studies that ended up not being open

1738
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:27,520
studies

1739
00:56:30,390 --> 00:56:28,799
and

1740
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:30,400
a lot of what they were talking about in

1741
00:56:34,309 --> 00:56:32,559
terms of what they were trying to do at

1742
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:34,319
the time i think the citizen hearings

1743
00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:37,280
were touched upon very very briefly

1744
00:56:41,829 --> 00:56:39,200
it sounded a lot like now in what's

1745
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,839
happening now uh even that the final

1746
00:56:46,150 --> 00:56:44,160
lines are about we need uh military

1747
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:46,160
officials willing to testify but need

1748
00:56:50,549 --> 00:56:48,400
immunity from the security oaths and i

1749
00:56:52,549 --> 00:56:50,559
think here we are 20 years later

1750
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:52,559
and we're we're hearing that language is

1751
00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:53,760
being written

1752
00:56:57,670 --> 00:56:55,520
and we've almost we've almost got to

1753
00:56:59,430 --> 00:56:57,680
that point and it's been a big gap i

1754
00:57:00,789 --> 00:56:59,440
mean i suppose the disappointment as if

1755
00:57:01,990 --> 00:57:00,799
you watched this 20 years ago you were

1756
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:02,000
like oh we're just on the verge of

1757
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:03,440
that's happening

1758
00:57:07,829 --> 00:57:06,079
and as this to bring the subject full

1759
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:07,839
circle back to that

1760
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:10,000
frustration of people and ufology or

1761
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:11,680
fans of the ufo topic who have been

1762
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:13,920
invested for 40 50 60 years to see

1763
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,240
what's happening now and these they see

1764
00:57:19,589 --> 00:57:18,079
folks like us

1765
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:19,599
who they would see as newer to the

1766
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:20,640
subject

1767
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:22,960
getting all excited about hearings and

1768
00:57:26,309 --> 00:57:24,559
immunity language and oh you've got

1769
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:26,319
louis elizondos and gary nolan's and

1770
00:57:28,470 --> 00:57:27,440
they're all really great and they're

1771
00:57:30,549 --> 00:57:28,480
making us

1772
00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:30,559
progress and they're looking going yeah

1773
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:32,880
i saw this 20 years ago and 30 years ago

1774
00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:35,440
and 40 years ago so you can kind of

1775
00:57:39,670 --> 00:57:37,440
understand that cynicism from that point

1776
00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:39,680
can't you where you go actually this

1777
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:41,520
documentary's final minute or two could

1778
00:57:45,190 --> 00:57:43,359
have been about now

1779
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:45,200
and just packing up from there

1780
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,720
yeah that i think that's almost why i

1781
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:48,720
saw this as like a prototype for the

1782
00:57:52,870 --> 00:57:50,640
phenomena uh james fox's more recent

1783
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,880
documentary because it it really is kind

1784
00:57:57,109 --> 00:57:54,720
of like he kept making the same

1785
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:57,119
documentary but just updating it and

1786
00:58:00,309 --> 00:57:58,480
really with the phenomenon he kind of

1787
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:00,319
hit the nail on the head and i i think

1788
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:02,480
that at that moment in time was the best

1789
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:04,000
documentary that could have been made on

1790
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:06,640
the subject and i would say the same for

1791
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:08,480
out of the blue in fact as well when it

1792
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:09,680
was made

1793
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:11,440
it was probably the best thing it made

1794
00:58:14,230 --> 00:58:12,400
and

1795
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:14,240
they when i was making the the thumbnail

1796
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:16,880
for the show uh a lot of the posters for

1797
00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:18,160
the film i came across actually had a

1798
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:20,240
quote from michael sherman who is kind

1799
00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:22,799
of the lead of skeptic magazine and the

1800
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:24,559
quote was out of the blue emerges as one

1801
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:26,160
of the very best films produced on this

1802
00:58:30,069 --> 00:58:27,680
subject one of the most interesting

1803
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:30,079
subjects in the history of science so to

1804
00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:32,720
convince michael sherma that this was a

1805
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:34,960
film worth people's time i i'd say it

1806
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:36,720
speaks volume about the film

1807
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:37,920
i'm going to come to you both in a

1808
00:58:41,349 --> 00:58:39,839
minute and ask you for your your overall

1809
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:41,359
thoughts and are rating out a 10 and do

1810
00:58:45,349 --> 00:58:43,440
you recommend i'll give you the james

1811
00:58:46,710 --> 00:58:45,359
fox quote though a text james a few days

1812
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,720
ago and asked him told him we were doing

1813
00:58:50,870 --> 00:58:48,880
this and asked him for a quote and james

1814
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:50,880
said i've had a dream to create the

1815
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:52,799
seminal feature length documentary film

1816
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:54,960
on the ufo topic since i was in my early

1817
00:59:00,069 --> 00:58:57,680
20s out of the blue is a product of an

1818
00:59:02,309 --> 00:59:00,079
eight year attempt to do just that i

1819
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:02,319
think ultimately as proud as i am of it

1820
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:04,400
i failed but the lessons i learned along

1821
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:06,319
the way and that long journey were key

1822
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:08,000
to getting the phenomenon created so i

1823
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:09,599
think you both touched on that that down

1824
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:12,079
the line we've got the phenomenon out of

1825
00:59:15,990 --> 00:59:13,680
those early attempts that were out of

1826
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:16,000
the blue and then i know what i saw was

1827
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:17,920
a bit more of a microscopic look at one

1828
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:19,920
incident in one event

1829
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:20,960
and then eventually we've got the

1830
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:22,640
phenomenon from it and soon to have

1831
00:59:26,309 --> 00:59:24,240
moment of contact which again is a bit

1832
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:26,319
of a i'll look under the microscope of

1833
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:28,319
one event and the virginia incident and

1834
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:30,160
then the phenomenon two which hopefully

1835
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:31,920
comes out in the next year or so i think

1836
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:33,200
i would expect that next year to be

1837
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:35,280
honest but but yeah

1838
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:36,480
fair quote i'll let me come to you

1839
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:39,040
nathan if i show the guest um

1840
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:41,119
overall thoughts and do you recommend

1841
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:43,760
and are rating out of ten

1842
00:59:46,870 --> 00:59:45,520
overall thoughts i think it's excellent

1843
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:46,880
i think uh

1844
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:49,040
you know as you pointed out at uh the

1845
00:59:52,870 --> 00:59:50,799
moment that it came out it was probably

1846
00:59:55,430 --> 00:59:52,880
the the best piece of work that had been

1847
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:55,440
done to date uh

1848
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:57,440
in terms of the title i'm a little bit

1849
01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:00,559
confused the title doesn't to me

1850
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:03,040
grab you or you know would you think

1851
01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:04,480
like i was going to be more focused on

1852
01:00:08,309 --> 01:00:05,839
like there was something with the oceans

1853
01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:08,319
or ufos in the oceans like you know at

1854
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:10,160
least something right i mean there's not

1855
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:12,160
i couldn't find a corollary of the title

1856
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:13,520
to anything that really happened in the

1857
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:14,880
documentary

1858
01:00:18,069 --> 01:00:15,839
uh

1859
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:18,079
so that was a little bit perplexing to

1860
01:00:20,950 --> 01:00:19,520
me it's not something that you could go

1861
01:00:21,910 --> 01:00:20,960
hey you should watch this and they'd be

1862
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:21,920
like

1863
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,680
what what does it mean you know what

1864
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:25,200
what am i going to get from that so

1865
01:00:29,589 --> 01:00:27,040
maybe that was a take away that he had i

1866
01:00:31,829 --> 01:00:29,599
don't know uh but in terms of a training

1867
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:31,839
moment or learning moment in turn in his

1868
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:34,559
documentary progress a hundred percent

1869
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:37,280
uh he's obviously refined his craft uh

1870
01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:39,119
very very well i i would give it you

1871
01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:41,280
know kind of placing it in its time

1872
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:43,520
uh i'd probably give it an 8 out of 10

1873
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:45,680
at a for a ufo documentary it's it's

1874
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:48,160
really well done it's not hokey uh yes

1875
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:50,000
we kind of can chuckle about the effects

1876
01:00:53,829 --> 01:00:52,000
or the maybe the sound that they were

1877
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:53,839
using kind of throughout the

1878
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:55,520
film that really started to bother me

1879
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:57,599
toward the end there but uh those are

1880
01:01:01,109 --> 01:00:59,359
really more i think products of the time

1881
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:01,119
but in terms of the quality of the

1882
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:03,920
content i thought it was really really

1883
01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:04,960
top-notch and i would definitely

1884
01:01:08,470 --> 01:01:06,880
recommend it to folks who who might be

1885
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:08,480
interested in looking at this from a

1886
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:10,559
more historical perspective

1887
01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:11,440
uh

1888
01:01:14,950 --> 01:01:12,559
and then the last thing i would say to

1889
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:14,960
your point that you made andy about you

1890
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:16,240
know kind of feeling like we're on this

1891
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:18,000
hamster wheel you know is this ever

1892
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:19,920
going to break we're going to break this

1893
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:22,559
cycle because it does very much feel as

1894
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:23,520
if we're

1895
01:01:27,270 --> 01:01:25,520
kind of at the same juncture we were 20

1896
01:01:29,270 --> 01:01:27,280
years ago and i know there were points

1897
01:01:31,270 --> 01:01:29,280
before that that felt the same as well

1898
01:01:33,030 --> 01:01:31,280
when is the damn gonna break and i i

1899
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:33,040
really think that uh you know we don't

1900
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:36,160
know but it to me you can see

1901
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:38,720
that efforts like that and efforts that

1902
01:01:42,549 --> 01:01:40,079
are happening now

1903
01:01:44,150 --> 01:01:42,559
are kind of pushing this a little bit a

1904
01:01:46,630 --> 01:01:44,160
bit further it's becoming more

1905
01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:46,640
acceptable to talk about it in the wider

1906
01:01:49,670 --> 01:01:47,599
public

1907
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:49,680
that documentary as great as it was in

1908
01:01:54,789 --> 01:01:52,240
2002 you couldn't have a conversation

1909
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:54,799
about it you know in in on cnn or

1910
01:01:59,109 --> 01:01:57,039
something without getting just laughed

1911
01:02:01,349 --> 01:01:59,119
off the screen is where versus now we

1912
01:02:03,109 --> 01:02:01,359
have people who are on there and happy

1913
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:03,119
to talk about it and engage in it people

1914
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:04,960
are curious and interested

1915
01:02:08,549 --> 01:02:07,280
to me that is a real sign of hope and

1916
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,559
optimism

1917
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:10,640
awesome done

1918
01:02:15,910 --> 01:02:13,039
so the the last film we reviewed was the

1919
01:02:17,430 --> 01:02:15,920
one with shatner um smoking cigarettes

1920
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:17,440
heavily and being like the you know the

1921
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:18,960
cigarette smoking man in the x-files in

1922
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:20,720
the back of the office and just whacks a

1923
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,640
miracle about ufos so i mean not akroyd

1924
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:26,000
oh dan aykroyd sorry you know william

1925
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:29,039
shannon my bad um yeah

1926
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:30,720
i was like why is he calling down

1927
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:33,440
shatner but yeah

1928
01:02:38,549 --> 01:02:36,160
i i promise i did watch it um

1929
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:38,559
is that on only dance or oh yeah only

1930
01:02:42,549 --> 01:02:40,000
dance.com that's where you'll find that

1931
01:02:44,470 --> 01:02:42,559
one no it's just full of ufo content but

1932
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:44,480
i i thought this was much much much

1933
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:46,559
stronger than that movie that movie felt

1934
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:48,640
like just one guy telling a bunch of

1935
01:02:53,029 --> 01:02:50,559
stories that may or may not be true this

1936
01:02:55,029 --> 01:02:53,039
one kind of laid out a case over history

1937
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:55,039
that as nathan said shows that there's a

1938
01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:56,319
there there

1939
01:03:00,549 --> 01:02:58,559
the cover-up is really palpable in this

1940
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:00,559
uh you you can see the the dominoes

1941
01:03:04,710 --> 01:03:02,640
there and it leads directly to this

1942
01:03:06,789 --> 01:03:04,720
modern day thing so i would highly

1943
01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:06,799
recommend it i love that they fell back

1944
01:03:09,750 --> 01:03:08,240
on documents i love that they fell back

1945
01:03:11,829 --> 01:03:09,760
on the officials there was very little

1946
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:11,839
woo it's kind of what i would call a

1947
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:14,000
nuts and bolts documentary

1948
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:15,280
but it does highlight the fact that we

1949
01:03:19,270 --> 01:03:17,200
have a lot of questions and very very

1950
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:19,280
few answers and when you guys were

1951
01:03:22,549 --> 01:03:20,480
talking about out of the blue and what

1952
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,559
it could mean i i thought well how

1953
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:24,480
awesome would it be if there was a uso

1954
01:03:27,910 --> 01:03:26,000
documentary or a documentary that just

1955
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:27,920
focused on

1956
01:03:31,750 --> 01:03:29,280
exploring the idea of where are they

1957
01:03:33,829 --> 01:03:31,760
from or who are they you know and and

1958
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:33,839
just kind of pour all this maybe off of

1959
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:35,359
the table so i think that's what we're

1960
01:03:37,829 --> 01:03:36,400
going to start seeing maybe in the

1961
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:37,839
future and i'd love someone like james

1962
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:40,240
fox to to make that case but for now i

1963
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:42,400
have to give this nine sources out of 10

1964
01:03:47,349 --> 01:03:44,319
and only one source of less than 10 just

1965
01:03:49,270 --> 01:03:47,359
because um it's not quite the phenomenon

1966
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:49,280
and we haven't quite gotten to that huge

1967
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:50,480
bit of movement that we've seen in the

1968
01:03:53,670 --> 01:03:52,319
past few years the peak of this is

1969
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:53,680
essentially the

1970
01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:55,839
national press club hearings which

1971
01:03:59,829 --> 01:03:57,839
weren't proper hearings but i think we

1972
01:04:01,349 --> 01:03:59,839
can all agree that if the the

1973
01:04:03,270 --> 01:04:01,359
congressional hearings looked more like

1974
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:03,280
those we we would have had a lot less

1975
01:04:08,549 --> 01:04:05,280
bad stuff to say about them

1976
01:04:10,870 --> 01:04:08,559
yeah i will agree on an eight out of ten

1977
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:10,880
do you know what maybe a nine out of ten

1978
01:04:13,829 --> 01:04:12,000
however the way i look at this

1979
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:13,839
documentary is

1980
01:04:21,190 --> 01:04:17,280
i saw the shawshank redemption

1981
01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:21,200
years after it was made i'm so curious

1982
01:04:25,109 --> 01:04:23,440
it's seen as like a classic movie with

1983
01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:25,119
an incredible story and a wonderful

1984
01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:26,640
twist at the end

1985
01:04:31,190 --> 01:04:28,720
but by the time i had saw the shawshank

1986
01:04:33,910 --> 01:04:31,200
redemption i had seen so many other

1987
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:33,920
movies that came after but copied that

1988
01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:36,240
and that ending to me wasn't much of a

1989
01:04:40,630 --> 01:04:38,480
surprise but i had seen it replicated

1990
01:04:42,309 --> 01:04:40,640
and parodied and so many other things

1991
01:04:43,109 --> 01:04:42,319
that i went ah

1992
01:04:45,190 --> 01:04:43,119
but

1993
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:45,200
if i realize and remember that actually

1994
01:04:49,829 --> 01:04:47,520
that was the first movie to do that that

1995
01:04:51,510 --> 01:04:49,839
twist was quite unique to that film then

1996
01:04:54,069 --> 01:04:51,520
i think you can appreciate appreciate it

1997
01:04:56,309 --> 01:04:54,079
more so it's a nine out of ten if i

1998
01:04:59,029 --> 01:04:56,319
realize that this documentary at that

1999
01:05:00,710 --> 01:04:59,039
point if i take myself back to 2002 yes

2000
01:05:02,950 --> 01:05:00,720
this was the pinnacle of that work and

2001
01:05:03,829 --> 01:05:02,960
forget everything that came since

2002
01:05:05,990 --> 01:05:03,839
but

2003
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:06,000
yeah given is that can i had seen some

2004
01:05:08,390 --> 01:05:07,359
of this stuff before even though it

2005
01:05:09,910 --> 01:05:08,400
might have been the first time some of

2006
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:09,920
that footage was used and the way it was

2007
01:05:13,670 --> 01:05:11,839
put together i think i saw it eight out

2008
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:13,680
of ten for me for this one i definitely

2009
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:15,280
recommend people watch it especially in

2010
01:05:20,069 --> 01:05:17,520
light of even just those closing scenes

2011
01:05:22,630 --> 01:05:20,079
that enclosing comments and quotes that

2012
01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:22,640
literally could be now um and it just

2013
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:24,000
gives you that kind of food for thought

2014
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:26,240
and dan wondering about that that uso

2015
01:05:30,789 --> 01:05:28,000
documentary is is that something the

2016
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:30,799
phenomenon too at least has a focus on

2017
01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:32,400
given what the phenomenon had its

2018
01:05:36,230 --> 01:05:34,400
individual parts and it talked about the

2019
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:36,240
meta materials we saw the aerial skill

2020
01:05:39,589 --> 01:05:37,760
phenomenon we saw various bits and

2021
01:05:41,670 --> 01:05:39,599
pieces the work going on in congress and

2022
01:05:43,990 --> 01:05:41,680
in the background do we hear more about

2023
01:05:45,829 --> 01:05:44,000
you know catalina and the incidents are

2024
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:45,839
ongoing do we hear more from pilots is

2025
01:05:49,990 --> 01:05:47,440
that something that maybe james works on

2026
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:50,000
as part of that so yeah i'd love to see

2027
01:05:54,950 --> 01:05:52,880
james once lou's book is out maybe james

2028
01:05:57,270 --> 01:05:54,960
can make a documentary kind of laying

2029
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:57,280
out those events and focus completely on

2030
01:06:00,309 --> 01:05:58,799
lou's experience with the phenomena in

2031
01:06:02,069 --> 01:06:00,319
the dod

2032
01:06:03,670 --> 01:06:02,079
well i think if the picture jerry

2033
01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:03,680
mccarbell put up last week was anything

2034
01:06:07,510 --> 01:06:05,359
to go by someone might be trying to work

2035
01:06:09,829 --> 01:06:07,520
on that documentary with lou already and

2036
01:06:11,270 --> 01:06:09,839
getting ahead of the game there

2037
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:11,280
yeah we'll have mickey brooke playing

2038
01:06:14,630 --> 01:06:12,880
louis alexander on screen and mumbling

2039
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:14,640
his way through two hours

2040
01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:16,799
sponsored by soccer co and just to

2041
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:18,960
finish up folks listen our thoughts a

2042
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:20,559
lot of you got in touch that one was for

2043
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:23,039
dan um barry said this documentary was

2044
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:24,799
and probably still has the best ufo

2045
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:26,640
documentary ever made not only was it

2046
01:06:30,470 --> 01:06:28,000
compelling that it was made with high

2047
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:30,480
quality it was mesmerizing and the

2048
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:31,520
uh

2049
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:34,079
no one place oh and the no one place i

2050
01:06:38,789 --> 01:06:36,880
was i was mesmerizing and the no one

2051
01:06:41,190 --> 01:06:38,799
place i always pointed people to oh oh

2052
01:06:42,870 --> 01:06:41,200
number one number one place yeah there's

2053
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:42,880
no fuel stop there barry oh i'm leaving

2054
01:06:47,029 --> 01:06:44,400
that in so people can hear me in my

2055
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:47,039
thought process it was mesmerizing and

2056
01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:49,119
the number one plays i always pointed to

2057
01:06:53,029 --> 01:06:51,119
for them to learn about the phenomenon

2058
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:53,039
melanie said james has a big fan in me i

2059
01:06:56,309 --> 01:06:54,319
love his work his passion for the

2060
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:56,319
subject and how well he represents it

2061
01:06:59,750 --> 01:06:58,240
ryan said has anyone ever mentioned we

2062
01:07:00,870 --> 01:06:59,760
are such a large craft i think he's

2063
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:00,880
talking about some of the objects

2064
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:03,440
discussed if it was man-made where could

2065
01:07:06,870 --> 01:07:05,280
actually be hidden

2066
01:07:08,470 --> 01:07:06,880
i don't know quick discussion point on

2067
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:08,480
that one you know if we did have these

2068
01:07:12,549 --> 01:07:10,640
huge huge big crafts that were flying

2069
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:12,559
over phoenix for example

2070
01:07:16,069 --> 01:07:14,720
where are they going it's just looking

2071
01:07:17,670 --> 01:07:16,079
for a parking place you know sometimes

2072
01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:17,680
you have to go around the car park a few

2073
01:07:21,349 --> 01:07:19,920
times to find that right spot so we're

2074
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:21,359
thinking like a wrong turn and looking

2075
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:22,799
for a parking spot and it's just going

2076
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:24,319
round and round

2077
01:07:27,349 --> 01:07:26,079
but we'd we the best place to hide

2078
01:07:28,549 --> 01:07:27,359
something like that would be the ocean

2079
01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:28,559
right yeah

2080
01:07:31,829 --> 01:07:30,240
i was going to say yeah so in the ocean

2081
01:07:33,029 --> 01:07:31,839
or in a mountain you know but the

2082
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:33,039
ocean's probably easier because you'd

2083
01:07:36,230 --> 01:07:34,799
have to build inside a mountain but yeah

2084
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:36,240
but rumors are rumors aren't they but

2085
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:38,400
yeah cool question uh dylan said i

2086
01:07:42,309 --> 01:07:40,319
appreciate james fox but i'm tired of

2087
01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:42,319
the personal eyewitness stuff nowadays

2088
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:43,920
you need more than that eyewitnesses by

2089
01:07:47,510 --> 01:07:46,000
nature are unreliable if you ask 10 of

2090
01:07:50,069 --> 01:07:47,520
them on orange looks like you'll get 10

2091
01:07:52,390 --> 01:07:50,079
different versions all in my opinion

2092
01:07:53,990 --> 01:07:52,400
fair enough dylan totally valid steve

2093
01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:54,000
says i think james is great out the blue

2094
01:07:57,990 --> 01:07:56,000
as a classic which abs i absolutely

2095
01:07:59,829 --> 01:07:58,000
adore can't wait for the podcast well

2096
01:08:01,349 --> 01:07:59,839
here you have it steve williams said

2097
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:01,359
it's one of the best documentaries on

2098
01:08:05,670 --> 01:08:03,280
the phenomenon ever probably the best

2099
01:08:07,270 --> 01:08:05,680
superb craftsmanship lin said she

2100
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:07,280
watched a couple of years ago laid up in

2101
01:08:11,190 --> 01:08:09,200
bed with a flu and she watched it as

2102
01:08:12,789 --> 01:08:11,200
well as steven grier's she felt james

2103
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:12,799
fox's documentaries are better

2104
01:08:16,550 --> 01:08:14,559
researched with no self-promotion and

2105
01:08:19,110 --> 01:08:16,560
that's what she loves about him

2106
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:19,120
uh and then again yeah steve sally

2107
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:21,279
emerson all said amazing one of the

2108
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:23,279
greats totally loved it totally loved it

2109
01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:24,880
thank you very much for all of you

2110
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:26,480
sending those in

2111
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:28,400
dan nathan thank you very much for both

2112
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:30,000
of you joining us that was fun i enjoyed

2113
01:08:34,709 --> 01:08:30,719
that

2114
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:34,719
nathan once again i i no longer have to

2115
01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:36,719
miss you now i can see your face i know

2116
01:08:39,829 --> 01:08:38,400
it's always a pleasure gentlemen

2117
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:39,839
we'll get nathan back on don't worry

2118
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:41,120
it's been too long but thank you once

2119
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:44,400
again folks and next documentary um i am

2120
01:08:48,709 --> 01:08:45,839
thinking you can give me your opinions

2121
01:08:50,550 --> 01:08:48,719
on this the dorothy isaac documentary

2122
01:08:51,829 --> 01:08:50,560
that's on amazon prime loads of people

2123
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:51,839
keep asking about that people are

2124
01:08:55,269 --> 01:08:53,920
commenting on it and some folks have

2125
01:08:57,510 --> 01:08:55,279
seen it some folks said they were going

2126
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:57,520
to see it i think that's true

2127
01:09:00,870 --> 01:08:58,799
yeah they're capturing the light yeah

2128
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:00,880
dorothea is it um

2129
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:02,480
i'll tell you straight off the bat i've

2130
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:05,040
seen some of those compelling pictures

2131
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:06,719
i don't think they're so compelling

2132
01:09:10,870 --> 01:09:08,400
however i've not seen the documentary

2133
01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:10,880
for a long time so i'll go back to it

2134
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:12,880
and we'll do that one next year so thank

2135
01:09:17,749 --> 01:09:15,679
you very much and we'll speak soon

2136
01:09:20,229 --> 01:09:17,759
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2137
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2140
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2141
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2142
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2143
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2144
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2145
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2156
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2158
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2159
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2160
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2161
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2162
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payments protected every time that's

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really important your payment won't be

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released until you approve the work so

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there's no paying for work that isn't of

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the required standard giving you the

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complete control you need to get the

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perfect product for your business and

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for more peace of mind fiverr support

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team are available 24 7 to answer any

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questions or provide the help you need

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so if you've been fishing around the net

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for the right solution stop use the

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perfect solution and go to fiverr that's

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f i v e r r and find the perfect

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freelance services for your business

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today you can help support this podcast

2178
01:10:56,070 --> 01:10:52,000
by using my special link zen dot ai

2179
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forward slash ufo five that's z e n dot

2180
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a i slash ufo and the number five the

2181
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next time you need to book a freelancer

2182
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details are in the description

2183
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:07,199
that is all for this week's show thank

2184
01:11:11,350 --> 01:11:09,120
you very much for listening please

2185
01:11:13,830 --> 01:11:11,360
remember to leave the podcast review on

2186
01:11:16,149 --> 01:11:13,840
your chosen platform you can like

2187
01:11:18,070 --> 01:11:16,159
retweet and subscribe that would all be

2188
01:11:20,229 --> 01:11:18,080
very much appreciated the shows are

2189
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:20,239
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

2190
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:21,760
more and more you can sign up at

2191
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patreon.com forward slash that ufo

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podcast to access shows ad free as well

2193
01:11:31,990 --> 01:11:29,199
please get in touch on twitter facebook

2194
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:32,000
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

2195
01:11:37,270 --> 01:11:35,199
twitter it's at ufouapam

2196
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:37,280
and again folks as always keep looking

2197
01:12:00,790 --> 01:11:40,290
up you never know what you might see

2198
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:08,660
is

2199
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:19,860
[Music]

2200
01:12:57,990 --> 01:12:51,220
scare me

2201
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:58,000
[Music]

2202
01:13:11,100 --> 01:13:00,239
if you really want to know who i think

2203
01:13:11,110 --> 01:13:15,590
[Music]

2204
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:24,960
for being serious open

2205
01:13:40,740 --> 01:13:37,990
[Music]

2206
01:13:45,990 --> 01:13:40,750
what's that is

2207
01:13:47,830 --> 01:13:46,000
[Music]

2208
01:13:58,940 --> 01:13:47,840
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

2209
01:14:34,709 --> 01:14:06,440
[Music]